Couple of questions
- Thread starter stryve
- Start date
nekomata fuyu
Mongoose
Now that it's been brought to Matt's attention that he screwed up, and HEL Track has been changed to be a clone of Adv Sensors, what are the chances that we get a real result to replace one of the duplicates? Also, any ideas on what the new result could be?
Greg Smith
Mongoose
That is a good question, since they both appear on the Psi Corps refit table.
nekomata fuyu
Mongoose
If people were considering multiple HEL Tracks to be cheesy powergaming, despite it specifically saying that it did stack, I'd dread to think what names they'd be brewing up for anyone who tried to stack HEL Track and Adv sensors :wink:
Two ideas for a replacement result that I've had so far:
- Shields. Now that the boffins have figured out how the energy dispersal works, they can start refitting it to existing ships. Use the Abbai Enhanced Shields result.
- Stealth. The Psi Corps are a big user of stealth, although not at the same level as the Minbari. Maybe this one could be based on the Minbari result, but instead gives stealthless ships Stealth 2.
Two ideas for a replacement result that I've had so far:
- Shields. Now that the boffins have figured out how the energy dispersal works, they can start refitting it to existing ships. Use the Abbai Enhanced Shields result.
- Stealth. The Psi Corps are a big user of stealth, although not at the same level as the Minbari. Maybe this one could be based on the Minbari result, but instead gives stealthless ships Stealth 2.
nekomata fuyu
Mongoose
That's what I said, but Kat seems to think that rules as written is powergaming if he doesn't like the way they're written 
As you say though, Matt has amended the rule to be how he wants it. Hopefully P&P will be an opportunity to replace the now redundant result.
As you say though, Matt has amended the rule to be how he wants it. Hopefully P&P will be an opportunity to replace the now redundant result.
katadder said:
Without explicit guidance as to what the 'spirit' is, I fail to see how you can state that categorically. Without such information there really is no such thing as 'spirit' and folks have to play as written. In that context the rules as written (RAW) actually *is* the spirit of the game.
JMO.
Cheers, Gary
katadder said:
but what is the spirit of the game? the spirit of the show especially for the Narn and Centauri was win at all costs. Playing the rules as written is such a moment. If you mean spirit of the game and fairness, then you have to count out JPB, Demos, Gaim and Dag Kar allies for ISA, WS and drakh raiders in blokade, remove crits, remove beam mechanic, remove the randomness of stealth, remove dice. . .
as to your example above, you are not nescesarily gaining more heltracs, you are gaining an upgrade, more power, bigger sensors.
nekomata fuyu
Mongoose
Before the benefit of having Matt state his intent for the rule, lets look at the apparent spirit of the rule:
- As a Psi Corps player, you notice that there are two similar results in the refit table. You ask yourself "what's the difference?" You note that the difference is that one says it doesn't stack, whilst there's a rule at the top of the page saying that the results stack unless stated otherwise.
- If there has been a mistake and HEL Track doesn't stack, it is now the same result as Adv Sensors. From looking at the other refit tables, you note that they don't have duplicate results.
- IIRC, the fluff for the HEL Track is that it is a new technique for seeing past stealth that promise to be drastically more effective than just upgrading the power of a standard sensor array.
After thinking it through for a moment, you see that the rule has been written as intended, or the writer has screwed up not once but twice - once in forgetting to state that the rule doesn't stack, once in slipping a duplicate result into the refits table. This is backed up by fluff suggesting that HEL Track has the potential to be better than a simple power-boosted array in the long run.
Most people I deal with would think that the spirit of the rule in this case is more likely to be that the writer hasn't made any mistakes, and the rule as written is correct. I personally find it kind of sad that you suggest that the spirit of the rule is to assume that Matt has screwed up twice unless he specifically states otherwise.
- As a Psi Corps player, you notice that there are two similar results in the refit table. You ask yourself "what's the difference?" You note that the difference is that one says it doesn't stack, whilst there's a rule at the top of the page saying that the results stack unless stated otherwise.
- If there has been a mistake and HEL Track doesn't stack, it is now the same result as Adv Sensors. From looking at the other refit tables, you note that they don't have duplicate results.
- IIRC, the fluff for the HEL Track is that it is a new technique for seeing past stealth that promise to be drastically more effective than just upgrading the power of a standard sensor array.
After thinking it through for a moment, you see that the rule has been written as intended, or the writer has screwed up not once but twice - once in forgetting to state that the rule doesn't stack, once in slipping a duplicate result into the refits table. This is backed up by fluff suggesting that HEL Track has the potential to be better than a simple power-boosted array in the long run.
Most people I deal with would think that the spirit of the rule in this case is more likely to be that the writer hasn't made any mistakes, and the rule as written is correct. I personally find it kind of sad that you suggest that the spirit of the rule is to assume that Matt has screwed up twice unless he specifically states otherwise.
Dr Stubbsberg
Mongoose
presumably you reroll it, as with any other result that cannot be applied
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Ships with Shadow Tech don't have Psychic Crew - which is based on the show - Shadow Tech and Teeps don't coexist well. So rerolling would be the best option.
nekomata fuyu
Mongoose
That bit makes me wonder though - wasn't one of the plots that they were starting to use teeps as the pilots of Shadow ships?
I'd stick with rerolling just because the only other possible alternative is that such ships gain Psychic Crew 1. This would be worse than useless, as it would just open you up to being killed by Shadow screams.
I'd stick with rerolling just because the only other possible alternative is that such ships gain Psychic Crew 1. This would be worse than useless, as it would just open you up to being killed by Shadow screams.
I tend to want RAW, but most games have holes that can be exploited to create unintended effects. That to my understanding was the difference between cheese/power gaming and cheating. Power gaming worked under at least one interpretation of the rules... cheating didn't, neither was the intention of the writer.
A bit like our market nastiness right now... it was technically legal but kinda killed the game.
That said this game is written poorly because the fluff parts of a rule and the mechanics part aren't separated enough. Rules should read like stereo instruction bland as day old bread and using technical terms not colloquial English. Fluff should be fun but not contradict rules or reasonable expectations of performance under the rules. (the old raid level G'Quan that was supposed to be faster than a G'Quan but was slower)
Ripple
A bit like our market nastiness right now... it was technically legal but kinda killed the game.
That said this game is written poorly because the fluff parts of a rule and the mechanics part aren't separated enough. Rules should read like stereo instruction bland as day old bread and using technical terms not colloquial English. Fluff should be fun but not contradict rules or reasonable expectations of performance under the rules. (the old raid level G'Quan that was supposed to be faster than a G'Quan but was slower)
Ripple
