Converting D&D Clerical Domains to MRQ Runes

[SaskDM]

Hello All,

I'm running a Pathfinder campaign so I need to convert D&D domains into Runes so I can figure out what Runes belong to what Gods.

Has anybody done this?

I have made these translations as these ones seem pretty straightforward:

D&D (MRQ)
Air (Air)
Animal (Beast)
Chaos (Chaos)
Death (Death)
Earth (Earth)
Fire (Fire)
Law (Law)
Luck (Luck)
Magic (Magic)
Plant (Plant)
Travel (Motion)
Trickery (Illusion)
Water (Water)

These ones I think but not sure:

D&D (MRQ)
Good (Harmony)
Healing (Fertility)
Sun (Heat or Light)

But I'm not sure what to do with these domains:
Destruction
Evil
Knowledge
Protection
Strength
War

And these MRQ Runes:
Communication
Darkness
Disorder
Fate
Infinity
Man
Mastery
Moon
Spirit
Statis
Truth

Any suggestions would be helpful,

Tony

 

[Deleriad]

Hello All,

I'm running a Pathfinder campaign so I need to convert D&D domains into Runes so I can figure out what Runes belong to what Gods.

Has anybody done this?

I have made these translations as these ones seem pretty straightforward:

D&D (MRQ)
Air (Air)
Animal (Beast)
Chaos (Chaos)
Death (Death)
Earth (Earth)
Fire (Fire)
Law (Law)
Luck (Luck)
Magic (Magic)
Plant (Plant)
Travel (Motion)
Trickery (Illusion)
Water (Water)

These ones I think but not sure:

D&D (MRQ)
Good (Harmony)
Healing (Fertility)
Sun (Heat or Light)

But I'm not sure what to do with these domains:
Destruction
Evil
Knowledge
Protection
Strength
War

And these MRQ Runes:
Communication
Darkness
Disorder
Fate
Infinity
Man
Mastery
Moon
Spirit
Statis
Truth

Any suggestions would be helpful,

Tony

Without knowing Pathfinder's description of the domains I can suggest the following based on the core runes in RQII:

knowledge (Truth)
Sun (Light) - Sun is more commonly known as fire.
Destruction is usually associated with Death in the runic language.
Evil *could* be associated with Disruption. Note that Disruption is usually opposed to Harmony and you have associated Harmony with Good so that probably works ok.
Protection has often turned up as a part of the Stasis rune.
Strength is a pretty odd domain.
War - there are conflict and war runes around. For many, Air/Storm is associated with conflict for mythological reasons.

I'm surprised Pathfinder doesn't have a communication domain: its rare to see a mythology without a god of communication or languages.

Darkness is considered an element in its own right in RQ runes but that's a fairly rare take on it so you can leave Darkness out and treat it as the absence of light.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

These ones I think but not sure:

D&D (MRQ)
Good (Harmony)
Healing (Fertility)
Sun (Heat or Light)

Traditionally, Sun is covered by the Fire/Sky Rune (It's the same rune)

But I'm not sure what to do with these domains:

Destruction
Evil
Knowledge
Protection
Strength
War

Destruction may be covered by Disorder, Death, Chaos
Evil is a social construct rather than a Universal - You only ever describe your enemies as "Evil", never yourself - however if you are associating "Harmony" with "Good" then "Disorder" is it's opposite
Knowledge is best covered by the Truth rune
Protection is a bit of a nebulous concept - protection from what? Maybe you could use stasis at a stretch?
Strength Possibly Mastery
War is trariotinally covered by Death

And these MRQ Runes:

Communication
Darkness
Disorder
Fate
Infinity
Man
Mastery
Moon
Spirit
Statis
Truth

Any suggestions would be helpful,

These are harder to advise on, since the last time I played a D&D Cleric was under 1st ed AD&D when clerical domains didn't exist...

Communication covers Trade/Fair Exchange as well as communication - You might also include CHA-boosting spells under this rune
Darkness includes Fear, Cold and Hunger - Gloranthan Trolls are creatures of Darkness... - It's also the oldest of the Elemental runes
Disorder is the opposite of Harmony - Disorder is the concept of Anarchy while Chaos is a cosmos destroying cancer...
Fate is the opposite of luck - it covers destiny as well - it is not a particularly common Rune
Infinity Another rare rune!
Man covers all humanoid life (so Elves combine the Man Rune and the Plant Rune, for instance)
Mastery covers Command and Leadership
Moon In Glorantha, the Moon is the rune of Balance (as it is cyclic), it also covers Madness (as in Lunatic)
Spirit The rune of disembodied spirits, ghosts etc. Used by Shaman.
D&D spells that summon creatures from other planes might use Spirit
Statis - The opposite of Movement - covers Stability and Stagnation
Truth - The opposite of Illusion - covers Honour and Knowledge as well as Truth - Magical Oaths would invoke the Truth Rune


I'd be tempted, if trying to backfit RQ magic to an existing pantheon to start by matching the spells to the Gods, and then derive the Runes from the spells they grant, rather than assigning Runes first and trying to make the spells fit. You may need to make some spells be possible from different Runes (the Game effect is the same though the trappings may be different), or grant some spells through sub-cults to prevent Gods having too many Runes.

 

[kintire]

Evil is a social construct rather than a Universal - You only ever describe your enemies as "Evil", never yourself - however if you are associating "Harmony" with "Good" then "Disorder" is it's opposite

Ahem. Let us not impose Gloranthan rules on everything... if that's even true in Glorantha. Leaving aside the real world (where the statement is contentious and the supporting line irrelevant) it is flatly untrue in DnD where Evil IS a Universal and can be Detected, Dispelled, Protected From, make up planes and even have sapient bits of it walking around. I would say Chaos is your best bet as an "Evil" rune, though you may need to vary the flavour text on some of the spells for the Lawful Evil types!

 

[SetentaeBolg]

Hi

I've added some comments:

D&D (MRQ)
Chaos (Chaos)

I don't think this is a good fit. As others have said above, Chaos in Glorantha isn't about disorder or rebellion or individuality, it's about dissolving the order that allows existence to occur. Like cosmic cancer, as someone said. It is universally reviled and pretty much nastiness incarnate.

Death (Death)

You may have some problems here depending on how Pathfinder works Death. If there is a variant domain for gods of death who are against undeath that would work well for Humakt and the like. For your Zorak Zoran style nutters, a more regular "death god fit" would work, with the proviso (as I understand it) that when they create undead they are binding darkness spirits into the corpses rather than interfering with the original soul.

Law (Law)

Again, I'm not sure about this. I think D&D type Law may equate more to the Stasis rune. Law in Glorantha is more about the Cosmos, its rules and its ordering (which is why it is the symbol of sorcery).

Trickery (Illusion)

More likely to be Disorder but Illusion is also a reasonable fit. Things like time stop, though (which I vaguely remember is in Trickery) don't strike me as Illusion rune but could be Disorder rune based.

D&D (MRQ)
Good (Harmony)
Healing (Fertility)
Sun (Heat or Light)

These all seem fair - Sun would be Fire probably, as others have said, or Light with some minor changes depending.

But I'm not sure what to do with these domains:
Destruction
Evil
Knowledge
Protection
Strength
War

And these MRQ Runes:
Communication
Darkness
Disorder
Fate
Infinity
Man
Mastery
Moon
Spirit
Statis
Truth

Knowledge = Truth, but the others don't seem like good fits for anything. If you can find variant domains in various sourcebooks, what others have said about the runes should help you track them down.

I hope this is of some help, apologies if I've over (or badly) explained.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

it is flatly untrue in DnD where Evil IS a Universal

There are a number of good reasons why many people turned from D&D to RQ in the first place, and this may well be one. If you are trying to fit existing Runes to concepts then there is no universal Rune for "Evil", because there is no universal agreement on what Evil is.

 

[Simulacrum]

There are a number of good reasons why many people turned from D&D to RQ in the first place, and this may well be one. If you are trying to fit existing Runes to concepts then there is no universal Rune for "Evil", because there is no universal agreement on what Evil is.

Yep - I was probably about 14 when I made the switch circa 1982, having been a D&Der for a couple of years (a long time at that age!). The novelty of deciding for oneself who the bad guys are and what your character's journey might be was a brilliant wake-up call that here was a game that could take your imagination into whole new places. OK, so no levels, hit dice or character classes and magic for everyone also counted, natch. But I never played D&D again.

 

[kintire]

There are a number of good reasons why many people turned from D&D to RQ in the first place, and this may well be one. If you are trying to fit existing Runes to concepts then there is no universal Rune for "Evil", because there is no universal agreement on what Evil is.

Shya right.

People have moral disagreements and in few conflicts is there white hats and black hats, but if Chaos isn't Evil, its something very very VERY like it.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

People have moral disagreements and in few conflicts is there white hats and black hats, but if Chaos isn't Evil, its something very very VERY like it.

But in D&D/Pathfinder they are distinct concepts.

The question for the OP, I would say, is whether he is trying faithfully to recreate the cosmology and absolute morality of the D&D/Pathfinder universe (in which case he may need to actually invent new runes - in a D&D universe I would expect there to runes for Good and Evil) or whether it's really the other trappings of Golarion (or whatever world he's using) that he wants to keep, and so would be content to bend the metaphysical aspects to fit the existing RQ framework.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

People have moral disagreements and in few conflicts is there white hats and black hats, but if Chaos isn't Evil, its something very very VERY like it.

Chaos isn't Evil, it's Amoral - A Gorp (which is pretty close to raw chaos) isn't good or evil, it just is

 

[duncan_disorderly]

People have moral disagreements and in few conflicts is there white hats and black hats, but if Chaos isn't Evil, its something very very VERY like it.

But in D&D/Pathfinder they are distinct concepts.

If CHAOS maps to both Chaos & Evil in the D&D world, where does this leave Chaotic Good entitites? (If Harmony = Good then Chaotic Good would have the runes of Harmony and Chaos, which would make Gark The Calm, God of Zombies a Chaotic Good deity!!!)

 

[SetentaeBolg]

People have moral disagreements and in few conflicts is there white hats and black hats, but if Chaos isn't Evil, its something very very VERY like it.

Chaos isn't Evil, it's Amoral - A Gorp (which is pretty close to raw chaos) isn't good or evil, it just is

I don't think that's entirely true - Evil may not exist an objective part of Glorantha, but Chaos is outside of Glorantha, and "seeks" to destroy it (even if, for a Gorp, only in the same way that water at the top of a slope seeks the bottom). This may not be Evil in the sense of having a conscious conviction to do others harm, but it certainly is evil in the sense of inducing harm and suffering.

And for plenty (most) other chaos, it is a conscious conviction to do others harm. Not for survival, or prosperity, or even sport, but because there is the basic driving need of Chaos to pervert, destroy and dissipate. This doesn't rob the actor of any moral responsibility.

I agree with the other poster, if anything in Glorantha is D&D style "Evil", it's Chaos. But that's not the complete picture, of course.

 

[kintire]

My understanding is that he's going DnD, but wants to do as little rewriting as possible!

Chaos isn't Evil, it's Amoral - A Gorp (which is pretty close to raw chaos) isn't good or evil, it just is

A Gorp is a Bad Thing: its presence causes pollution and agonizing death. Its problematic to describe it as Evil, because its mindless. I'm not sure on what basis you pick a Gorp as "pure Chaos"... perhaps because its about the only Chaos beats that isn't actively malicious?

Anyway, be that as it may the Chaos rune is a good fit for DnD Evil.

If CHAOS maps to both Chaos & Evil in the D&D world, where does this leave Chaotic Good entitites? (If Harmony = Good then Chaotic Good would have the runes of Harmony and Chaos, which would make Gark The Calm, God of Zombies a Chaotic Good deity!!!)

Of course Chaos doesn't map to both. Gloranthan Chaos is no more DnD Chaos than the bow you use for shooting with is the front of a boat.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

Anyway, be that as it may the Chaos rune is a good fit for DnD Evil.

And where does that leave Lawful Evil?

I'm not a Glorantha expert, but from my understanding Glorantha's Chaos probably equates fairly closely to D&D Chaotic Evil. Whether Harmony equals Lawful Good, I'm not so sure.

The real trouble here is trying to bang square pegs into round holes.

 

[soltakss]

The trouble with this approach is that it assumes that each domain has a single rune, which isn't necessarily the case. Runes are complex things and two deities with the same rune could have very different viewpoints and natures.

I would equate D&D-style Chaos with the Disorder Rune, so in the Pathfinder world Law would oppose Disorder. Of course, you could ignore the Gloranthan nature of Chaos and simply use the Chaos rune as being like Disorder.

If you wanted to give each domain runes, then I'd use a pair or even three runes.

However, even that wouldn't really reflect the complexity of the domains. Runes are a very clunky way of describing deities and the powers of deities, so much so that I rarely use them.

For example, the War Domain presumably covers all the gods of war. Now, I know nothing at all about the Pathfinder world, but looking at Ancient Greece as an example, a War Domain would cover Ares and Athena, two very different deities. Would the same runes describe these deities? Not at all, so why should the War Domain have a single rune that describes the Domain?

 

[SaskDM]

Thanks for all the replies.

Just to clarify my question as I have read some questions about my reasons for asking this question.

I'm using the world of Golarion as created by Pathfinder for my campaign. So I'm looking at the Gods in this world and I'm trying to figure out what Runes may go with what God.

I'm not worried about issues of evil, chaos, or good as these are beliefs that each GM will figure out for their campaign. For me, I go for high ideals and see chaos as bad as chaos seeks to destroy, to break things down to a primordial matter. Someone else may see chaos as neither good or bad but that is their campaign. For me, evil is bad and chaos is bad. I like simplicity.

Anyway, for those who posted responses about which Rune may go with which D&D domain, thanks as it is helping me decide which Runes may go where.

Tony

 

[soltakss]

If you want to decide which runes go with individual deities, then here's what I'd do:

1. Have a look at what powers, abilities and description the deity has
2. Match runes to those attributes

I wouldn't get too hung up with domains etc as they should only be guidelines. Not all wargods have the same runes in the same way that not all healing gods do.

 

[Lakritsploppen]

Do a short summary of all/ some of the gods you are going to use and try to look how to make 1 or 2 cults (organisations) for them, I have noticed that it helped considerably to "get" the D&D god/domain thing.
Cults for the different gods that is when runequest really shines. Especially with Mrq2 rules for cults with behaviour based on myths etc.

Exampel:

Heironeous, god of valor, Al: L-G domains good, law, war

He promotes: justice, valor, chivalry and honour

In rq i would do the following:

Heironeous knights
Runes: mastery, Law, (Might change law for truth)

Common magic: Bladesharp, coordination, endurance

Divine spells: Blessing, Disarm, True (sword)

Myths: clash with hextor, (resonance-)
Behaviour oppose slavery, fight against oppression.

gifts: heroic aura, tireless

this is just an idea. ought to make another cult called the healing touch of Heironeous, same runes but cure spells & protection, these cults should of course be allies, same god different chapters...

 

[SaskDM]

Thanks Lakritsploppen for the advice.

This will help me in the conversion. Thankfully I have some time to do this as another player is running a game using Savage Worlds rules so I can tinker with some of the Pathfinder Gods to convert them to MRQ.

Thanks again to all for your suggestions.

Tony