Considering writing a Winter War supplement for WaW

[Hiromoon]

Which is why collaboration is such a nice idea, since it'll combine two ideas into one book, making the final product either a boon-doggle or a masterpiece.

So far, it's been nothing but Rembrandts from my guys!

 

[127th Angry Angels]

I'm playing devil's advocate here. But if two books exist covering exactly the same material is that going to cause issues to new gamers? If you get the 'wrong' one will you want to fork out again for a slightly better version of it. Does the concept of there being a 'better' version do any harm?

Welcome to market forces - the 'better' edition, in theory, will sell more and become more widely known.

It would put me off buying a supplement if could be replaced by an "official" one weeks later. I'd also be less inclined to pre-order anything and wait until someone tells me about it (depending on price mind).

Also what happens with tournaments, which lists are legal where two versions are present?

On a side note say someone comes up with a supplement, do Mongoose themselves put in any playtesting/sanity checking of the rules?

Just trying to get a grasp on the way this will work.

 

[MongooseMatt]

>>>It would put me off buying a supplement if could be replaced by an "official" one weeks later.

Books from Mongoose are likely to supercede other material - however, other publishers are free to sell before our books come out, and there is no guarantee that we will cover certain areas anyway.

Note that this is exactly the sort of environment Mongoose started in with D20 books, and we had WotC to contend with!

>>>Also what happens with tournaments, which lists are legal where two versions are present?

That will be purely down to the individual tournament organisers. I imagine they would have a list of what was acceptable.

>>>On a side note say someone comes up with a supplement, do Mongoose themselves put in any playtesting/sanity checking of the rules?

Absolutely not - other publishers sink or swim by their own efforts. We are just opening the door for them.

If all of this sounds a bit negative, consider this. . .

World at War is released in 2-3 weeks time, you grab the book and start putting armies together. However, you start eyeing up an attractive Spitfire model at your local store, but there are no entries for it in our army lists.

However, the next week, someone publishers a $5 PDF containing a whole bunch of Allied aircraft, including that Spitfire - all of a sudden, there are 20 or 30 new units available for the game. True, we are bringing our our own Air Power book (likely at the bottom end of this year), but you will get 6 ore 9 months gaming out of that PDF - and for $5, that sounds a bit like a bargain. . .

That is just the surface, of course - more detailed supplements might move away from simply new units, and present complete army lists (Italians, or Free French, maybe?), entire campaigns or linked scenarios, new rules for dogfighting, a Dambusters scenario (which is actually quite possible with BF Evo, and we have been tinkering with some ideas of our own here ), special characters (we won't be doing these), adding zombies and werewolves to some army lists. . .

There are a great many directions a new startup publisher could go in to create their own identity and ensure they never get superceded.

 

[127th Angry Angels]

So effectively mongoose have no quality control over these liecenced and logo'ed supplements? That is a bit disapointing.

A supplement could be really broken in terms of game balance but it has the logo, is technically official and game legal. If i buy a supplement for a mini game i want some assurances over it's quality otherwise i may as well ask people to stat it for me on a forum. My opponent can buy a list with rules in it that are poorly reserched or OTT and i can't really stop it as it's in a BF:Evo supplment complete with shiney logo.

I realise of course that some of these will be works of absolute genius but then inevitably some will not. They will be reknowned for not being right but then it depends. Lot's of arguments have broken out about whose tank is better, which nations plane how the developers got this piece of equipment wrong. Does this then become an extension of that argument. One supplement has 1 set of rules for another a different set, your opponent picks which ever one suits them best.

In mongoose tournaments will only mongoose written material apply?

How does this work in your experience of it? Mongoose is the result of such means existing after all.

 

[MongooseMatt]

So effectively mongoose have no quality control over these liecenced and logo'ed supplements? That is a bit disapointing.

I realise of course that some of these will be works of absolute genius but then inevitably some will not. They will be reknowned for not being right but then it depends. Lot's of arguments have broken out about whose tank is better, which nations plane how the developers got this piece of equipment wrong. Does this then become an extension of that argument. One supplement has 1 set of rules for another a different set, your opponent picks which ever one suits them best.

In mongoose tournaments will only mongoose written material apply?

How does this work in your experience of it? Mongoose is the result of such means existing after all.

Good points, and good questions.

First off, the only 'official' publications for BF Evo will be from Mongoose - that will be one badge of quality you can rely on. And yes, in Mongoose tournaments, I imagine only Mongoose publications will be valid, though other tournament organisers are free to do as they wish.

You are right that we started off as an Open Content-based company, relying on the D20 licence. What happened was that certain companies (us, Troll Lord, Green Ronin, a few others) very quickly established themselves as producing good, solid, quality publications that many people were happy to use in their games. Other publishers fell flat on their faces (I won't name them), soon got a reputation for producing material that was less than top drawer, and quickly disappeared.

I imagine much the same will happen here. When PDFs or books are released, some people on these forums will inevitably pick them up - and you will soon see them making comments about 'must-buys' or 'avoid at all costs'.

Those publishers who score more marks in the 'must-buys' will find it easier to sell their next publications - they will bring in more revenue, be able to hire better artists, more writers, dedicate more time to developing their own games rather than just supporting World at War or Modern Combat, and so on. It really is my fond hope that at least one person manages to develop their own stand-alone games company out of this, but there is a lot of work involved for them!

The publishers who don't make the grade will quickly disappear as they begin to sell less and less of each release.

Not always a fan of market forces myself but, in this instance, it does work. The likely worst case for you is that you pick up a book or PDF, spending maybe $5-20, and decide it is not for you - you will then likely steer clear of that publisher.

However, the forum community (and Wargaming Online has its own review section as well) will get informed as to which supplements/games to buy very quickly.

 

[Brigadista]

Hi Ben

You may find the following free information in the following websites helpful for your £5.00 supplement:

http://www.kevos4.com/Part%201%20The%20Winter%20War%20Background.htm
http://www.feldgrau.com/wwar.html
http://www.winterwar.com/
http://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/news/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=25937
http://uralica.com/finnliv.htm
http://www.mil.fi/perustietoa/talvisota_eng/
http://www.nortfort.ru/mline/index_e.html
http://geocities.com/taipaleenjoki/
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/MAIN.html
http://www.cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/Chew/CHEW.asp
http://cgsc.leavenworth.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/gebhardt/gebhardt.asp
http://heninen.net/raatteentie/hanke/english.htm
http://www.panssarikilta.fi/Museo/kehys-e.html

Oh and in answer to your other thread requesting information on what ranges besides Flames of War produce 15mm Finns:

LKM/QRF
Resistant Roosters
Legions East.

Peter Pig produce nice Russians in greatcoat in their WW2 range and Russians in Shlem and greatcoat in their RCW range.

Most manufacturers of 15mm WW2 figures and AFVs produce suitable guns, softskins and armour used throughout the conflict.

Cheers
Mark

 

[127th Angry Angels]

So effectively mongoose have no quality control over these liecenced and logo'ed supplements? That is a bit disapointing.

I realise of course that some of these will be works of absolute genius but then inevitably some will not. They will be reknowned for not being right but then it depends. Lot's of arguments have broken out about whose tank is better, which nations plane how the developers got this piece of equipment wrong. Does this then become an extension of that argument. One supplement has 1 set of rules for another a different set, your opponent picks which ever one suits them best.

In mongoose tournaments will only mongoose written material apply?

How does this work in your experience of it? Mongoose is the result of such means existing after all.

Good points, and good questions.

First off, the only 'official' publications for BF Evo will be from Mongoose - that will be one badge of quality you can rely on. And yes, in Mongoose tournaments, I imagine only Mongoose publications will be valid, though other tournament organisers are free to do as they wish.

You are right that we started off as an Open Content-based company, relying on the D20 licence. What happened was that certain companies (us, Troll Lord, Green Ronin, a few others) very quickly established themselves as producing good, solid, quality publications that many people were happy to use in their games. Other publishers fell flat on their faces (I won't name them), soon got a reputation for producing material that was less than top drawer, and quickly disappeared.

I imagine much the same will happen here. When PDFs or books are released, some people on these forums will inevitably pick them up - and you will soon see them making comments about 'must-buys' or 'avoid at all costs'.

Those publishers who score more marks in the 'must-buys' will find it easier to sell their next publications - they will bring in more revenue, be able to hire better artists, more writers, dedicate more time to developing their own games rather than just supporting World at War or Modern Combat, and so on. It really is my fond hope that at least one person manages to develop their own stand-alone games company out of this, but there is a lot of work involved for them!

The publishers who don't make the grade will quickly disappear as they begin to sell less and less of each release.

Not always a fan of market forces myself but, in this instance, it does work. The likely worst case for you is that you pick up a book or PDF, spending maybe $5-20, and decide it is not for you - you will then likely steer clear of that publisher.

However, the forum community (and Wargaming Online has its own review section as well) will get informed as to which supplements/games to buy very quickly.

Hi Matt,

Can't thank you enough for taking the time to answer the above queries. I will definately watch to see what happens with this.

Wish Mongoose and Ben, Hiro and any others so inclinded the best of luck with this most interesting way of doing things.

Cheers,

Carl