Congratulations on Traveller!

[Silvereye]

Hm, I got Star Hero and had a look at its worldgen and I don't recall thinking it was actually better than First In's - that said I don't think it was bad either though. It's been a long time since I looked at it though.

I find Star Hero is much more elegantly written, with better definitions; at least through the primary stages of Star cluster, solar system and world creation. First In adds a bit more colour here and there through the process, but just gets too crunchy at times which bogs things down. However the random life generator is pretty neat.

 

[Kristovich]

No Fallout then? Darn it!

So, just what is this Traveller then? Never head of it myself.

 

[MaxSteiner]

- The GURPS Playtest process is far from a "joke" - it's hands down the most thorough in the industry, and it is very rigorous. And the standard of writing and editing are extremely high too.

I had to double check that bit too
I don't have a problem with people not liking gurps, light mathmatics durring a game aren't for everyone, but to jump from that and claim the games aren't properly playtested :shock:
I've always thought the standard of proof reading and writing on GURPS books was amongst the highest in the industry, and the side bars in GURPS books are the best bar none

The other guy had a point about the GURPS stuff not fitting in with other editions though, they system is, and always has been, geared towards GM's who prefer to tailor their own universes, but to be honest Traveler is so fragmented by this point it doesnt make alot of difference...

 

[EDG]

As a Traveller Ruleset, however, GT is suitable for GURPS players, and not many others. ANd that is what the question was about.

Sigh. No, GT is suitable for anyone who want to use GURPS rules. You make it sound like "GURPS players" are this self-contained, closed little cult of players that nobody else wants to join - when they really aren't.

GURPS is a pretty decent system in its own right (at least, it was in 3e - I've not tried 4e). If people are coming at this without having played Traveller at all then GURPS is as good a place as any to start - plus you can add a (metric) ton of stuff from the other books (eg biotech, ultratech, hightech, you name it) and settings (e.g. Blue Planet for a well designed single world, Transhuman Space for the transhumanist stuff that is sorely missing from Traveller). Plus, by the end of its run the 3e GT line was pretty much self-contained - if you get all the books in it then you don't need GURPS Space or Ultratech as well.

 

[MaxSteiner]

No Fallout then? Darn it!

So, just what is this Traveller then? Never head of it myself.

Very old school sci fi system, which has been resurected so many times most people have lost count, each time with a different system and in some cases setting.

I always thought the best way to describe it was as a RPG version Asimov's Foundation series... Although that kinda sells both short, you should get the idea

 

[Silvereye]

So, just what is this Traveller then? Never head of it myself.

A grand Space Opera of a rpg.

 

[Mage]

From what I have heard of Traveller, when I try to envision it I see the Fifth Element.

 

[EDG]

From what I have heard of Traveller, when I try to envision it I see the Fifth Element.

Firefly would be a closer approximation. Fifth Element is too... French .

(I mean that in a good way. French scifi is usually gloriously over the top, much more like space fantasy. Take Metabarons, Valerian, and Enki Bilal's Nikopol books for example)

 

[DM]

Firefly would be a closer approximation.

I did hear a rumour (although it was on the internet so its probably false) that Joss Whedon played Traveller at college which, if so, would explain a great many things

 

[AKAramis]

Fifth Element, Foundation, Firefly/Serenity, StarRisk Ltd, Hammer's Slammers, Bill the Galactic Hero, Stainless Steel Rat, and Doc Smith's Fuzzy series all share elements with the Traveller Universe.

Even Phule's Company could be part of Traveller...

As well could the Riddick Saga, Space Precinct, Jason of Star Command (and the related Space Academy)...

All the above have been used by people I know as inspirations for Traveller.

Despite all that, MWM specifically includes Star Wars as one of the many (along with Foundation, SSR, and Doc Smith's works).

The OTU (Official Traveller Universe) is a relatively gray empire... it has nobles in charge of imperial government, local option for planetary governments, A strong navy and Marines, an exploration force turned post-office and Census Bureau, exploitive megacorporations, allowances for Megacorps and local worlds to war with each other, guarantees of civil rights, and little to no enforcement of civil rights, massive differences in standards of living from world to world, no commo faster than light (save by sending couriers), 11000 worlds in about 1200 systems. Imperial agencies run the gamut of mundane but efficient to exotic and corrupt. Trade is apparently regulated, as the prices for shipping are based on time, not distance (reality should be both). Lots of things are implied only by rules, left to the Ref to fill in. Oh, and the Army... officially, there is NO imperial army... each member world contributes its own forces for use as the imperial army. There are pirates, and there are patrols, and for whatever reasons, the Imperium doesn't have the will to stop it. Sixguns and autopistols are common in the OTU... weapons ownership is common. Boardng actions often fall down to melee weapons.

There is artificial gravity, reactionless thrust (except in TNE), gravitic thrust (except in TNE, which only has gravity disconnection via contra-grav... bouyancy!). THe Jump drive always takes a week, no matter the distance. Fusion plants suck huge volumes of LHyd. Many ships can land.

 

[EDG]

Firefly would be a closer approximation.

I did hear a rumour (although it was on the internet so its probably false) that Joss Whedon played Traveller at college which, if so, would explain a great many things

Apparently untrue, according to Loren Wiseman. Then again, this is something he's only heard. I wish someone would just track down Joss at a convention and directly ask the guy, and I suspect he'll probably say "have I ever played what?!"

Personally I think any similarities to Traveller are totally coincidental. You'd think he might have mentioned it by now in the various interviews and documentaries and books if it were true.

 

[AKAramis]

Traveller is a best fit, but given the time frame, it might also have been 2300, Space Opera, or Star Frontiers.

There are a number of discussions on the similarities between Traveller and the 'Verse of Firefly:

Psionics as a restricted, even criminal activity
Wide variety of tech levels
Artificial gravity
No FTL commo
Six-guns, man-portable rocket launchers, and blades all common in a SF universe, with laser weapons known but expensive.
Small tramp freighters making a living by skirting the laws
Tramp freighter crews being ethically challenged in order to buy the needed fuel and parts.
Habitable but too-small to maintain an atmosphere long-term worlds.
Several world names are identical to Traveller worlds's names, and similar in overall nature, too!
Two references to the crew as "Travelers"
40+ YO ships still plying the lanes, and showing the wear for it.
Tramp freighters landing without carving holes in the ground.
Ports ranging from flat spot of bedrock to full-service yards.
Tyrannical central government bent on inclusivity (smacks of TNE's Reformation Coalition, actually)

I read an on-line interview where he mentioned an RPG connection, but he never specified which. Unfortunately, I wasn't a fan yet when I read it, so I didn't keep it...

 

[steffworthington]

I swear that Morgan & Wong must have played 2300AD before writing Space Above & Beyond. The two are practically identical. It's almost a 2300AD TV show.

 

[qstor]

There are two things that would instantly preclude my purchase...

• A Bad task system. Most especially the Xd6 vs Stat+Skill that MWM has been touting for T4 and again for T5.
• 1 skill per year Character Generation.

If Mongoose Traveller is just a rehash of CT I won't purchase it either.

There's multiple systems for Traveller around. People are going to aruge about their favorite system forever.

There's also the new Traveller Hero rules from Comstar.

Mike

 

[EDG]

There are a number of discussions on the similarities between Traveller and the 'Verse of Firefly:

Psionics as a restricted, even criminal activity
Wide variety of tech levels
Artificial gravity
No FTL commo
Six-guns, man-portable rocket launchers, and blades all common in a SF universe, with laser weapons known but expensive.
Small tramp freighters making a living by skirting the laws
Tramp freighter crews being ethically challenged in order to buy the needed fuel and parts.
40+ YO ships still plying the lanes, and showing the wear for it.
Tramp freighters landing without carving holes in the ground.
Ports ranging from flat spot of bedrock to full-service yards.
Tyrannical central government bent on inclusivity (smacks of TNE's Reformation Coalition, actually)

He's as much said that he wanted to mash western and (squishy) scifi together - everything else flowed from that. There are at least as many differences in the setting as there are "similarities". The OTU is not a split between Terran cultures (America/China vs colonies), Firefly is pretty much high tech or low tech, with nothing in between, there's no aliens, no recent interstellar war that tore the whole setting apart (the Solomani Rim War doesn't count, it's too small-scale). You don't see people boarding ships and having fights on ships with blades - that's only in the duelling culture.

Habitable but too-small to maintain an atmosphere long-term worlds.
Several world names are identical to Traveller worlds's names, and similar in overall nature, too!
Two references to the crew as "Travelers"

This is fanciful straw-clutching. He's always maintained that it wasn't supposed to be realistic. Most of the world names are pretty common (Persephone, Miranda and Ariel are in our own solar system). And if someone says "Traveller" now, they must have been influenced by the game? Come off it.

The only real similarity is that Firefly focussed on a bunch of "ordinary joes" with histories, trying to eke out a living on the spaceways. Everything else I think is just people seeing what they want to see.

 

[BuShips]

My own memory on this is swiss cheese, at best, but iirc in the commentaries by Joss either in the movie or the series DVDs he mentions that the characters are workable for an RPG (a doctor, merc, thief, psychic, mechanic, etc.). Sheesh, now I'll just have to watch it all over again to see the reference . Btw the thief is Saffron/Jolanda/Bridget of course. :wink:

 

[MaxSteiner]

I always thought Firefly owed more than a little bit to cowboy beebop and Trigun as well
Still, just goes to show you can't do a good sci fi without being influanced by a few series/systems even if you don't know you're doing it .

Its a shame that Im starting to active dislike the guy because of his Marvel comics run... Maybe I should sit and watch buffy again so I can forget all the horror :lol:

 

[EDG]

I always thought Firefly owed more than a little bit to cowboy beebop and Trigun as well
Still, just goes to show you can't do a good sci fi without being influanced by a few series/systems even if you don't know you're doing it .

Well heck, I suppose Aramis might argue that Cowboy Bebop must have been influenced by Traveller, after all it's about a bunch of average joes trying to make a living (as bounty hunters rather than traders), it's got projectile weapons in it, a bunch of unrealistic worlds, jump, has restricted/experimental psionics (I think - wasn't that circus/assasin guy supposed to be psychic?) and a wide range of tech. But the truth is, it's patently not based on Traveller.

It just goes to show that it's possible to find connections between anything really, if you look hard enough. That doesn't mean that they really are connected though.

 

[BuShips]

It just goes to show that it's possible to find connections between anything really, if you look hard enough. That doesn't mean that they really are connected though.

Well, everything is connected to Kevin Bacon, so I wonder what he knew about Traveller? :lol:

 

[AKAramis]

Well heck, I suppose Aramis might argue that Cowboy Bebop must have been influenced by Traveller, after all it's about a bunch of average joes trying to make a living (as bounty hunters rather than traders), it's got projectile weapons in it, a bunch of unrealistic worlds, jump, has restricted/experimental psionics (I think - wasn't that circus/assasin guy supposed to be psychic?) and a wide range of tech. But the truth is, it's patently not based on Traveller.

Nope. I wouldn't. Lack of context suggesting the possibility, and further, lack of knowledge of the two mentioned, except that they're anime & manga.

Firefly has a look and feel that is very much typical Traveller Merchant Play.
Whedon has a known history as a casual gamer.
Whedon having gamed in college, and being born in 64... that limits the sci-fi games further than I thought (he's older than he looks)... that puts his college days as probably 82-87...

It's a logical possibility, and not all of the sci-fi games from the era even bothered with slugthrowers...
STRPG avoided them; S&S didn't have CPR rounds; Space Opera is so fiddly that his expressed casual gaming is unlikely to fit, and is very much traveller inspired; Gamma World has the slugthrowers, and the mutants (and Reavers are not mutants, either, but that's a digression), but not the right tone to match; Spacemaster is zapgun happy, and has a very different feel; 2300 is late on in the period, and lacks several of the common elements; Other Suns was noted for "Lots of Races" in the core rules; Star Frontiers was likewise several races in the core.

Traveller is the closest of the bunch overall. And, assuming the interview was real (I suspect so, since my recollection of the DVD interview was lots of similar answers), he indicated an RPG as the source of the inspiration.

Not that he's indicated "This was my game" but merely that his gaming experience was a trigger for the hybrid of SciFi and Western. A hybrid that, quite honestly, is not unheard of before Firefly in the Traveller fanbase. (A friend, Mr. Sleighton, ran a CT game I played in that felt very much like a space-western in 1997.)

But far more important: Firefly is a good example of the style that the CT rules can evoke, even if it is unrelated.

Gunfights in a high-tech setting, making a living as ethically challenged merchants, evading the core worlds domination by any means possible, while still hoping to live free. And let's face it: not much of the sci-fi out there is about merchants; Traveller is, in many ways, merchant driven. As was Firefly.

Of course, ALL his TV series have a clear PC vs NPC motif.

All of them resonate as Gamerdom.