[CONAN] Women in the Hyborian Age

[Supplement Four]

I was flipping through a d20 supplement set in Medieval Greenland, and I noticed a reality rule I think I'm going to start using in my game.

In most fantasy settings, there is a desireable utopia where women can hold their own, physically, against men. Reality is just not so, especially in the pre-machine era.

The rule suggests to use these modifiers when creating female characters: -3 STR, +1 DEX, +1 CON.

To that, I'd add a modifier to INT, not only to "even out" the pros and cons, but also to give the female types a better chance at gaining more skills.

So, in my game, female characters will use these modifeirs: -3 STR, +1 DEX, +1 CON, +1 INT.

These modifiers are in addition to any other racial modifiers. Thus, a Cimmerian woman would use these modifiers: -1 STR, +1 DEX, +1 CON, -1 INT.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Yeah, I know I said I wouldn't bother anymore, but this post is bordering on the offensive.

http://www.advocate.com/uploadedImages/ADVOCATE/EDITORIAL/NEWS/20090819/Caster_SemenyaX390.jpg

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

http://www.coolthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/tallestmodel1.jpg

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

This is fun.

http://www.grow-inches-taller.com/a/images/TallWomanShortMan.jpg

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

...I noticed a reality rule...there is a desireable utopia where women can hold their own...Reality is just not so...The rule suggests to...add a modifier to INT...to "even out" the pros and cons...to give the female types a better chance...

Dear me.

I've mentioned before the differences between what you do in the privacy of you own gaming group and what you post on a forum where anyone can read the stuff you've written.

Before you post stuff like this, I'd recommend you think about some women you might know who could whip your ass, (shouldn't be too difficult), and their likely replies. :wink:

 

[Jeraa]

There is no reason to give women different stats than men. While men do tend to be stronger, nothing stops a woman from equaling a man.

Instead of assigning stat penalties to women, when your creating your NPCs, just put their lower scores into Strength. Does the exact same thing you want to do, but still allows players to play strong female characters.

 

[Da Boss]

Dangerous I feel

I once, decades ago, started a Stormbringer game and as always allowed female characters to roll same as male - my rationalle being that these were:

Heroic individuals
You can have strong women and weak men etc etc

Anyway point is I gained at least player from another game (D+D) as her GM was using exactly the same rule as you suggest.

the random roll for char stats already simulates the brredth of humanity I feel?

 

[Supplement Four]

The post wasn't meant to offend, but I'm not going to walk on eggshells around here either. It's a fact of life that women are physically weaker than men, in general and on average.

The Hyborian Age is set in the real world. From time to time, we see a strong female in the setting. Valeria, for example. For Belit, it's debatable whether she held sway due to her CHA or whether she, also, was a strong combat fighter (I think the former, but it doesn't matter).

Plus, there are societal pressures and cultural differences.

I think the rule is legit.

This is a forum to discuss Conan, so I don't think I should hide stuff like this. Freakin' Politally-Correct-puppies get on my nerves anyway. Conan isn't PC.

Don't like the rule, don't use it. Simple as that.

For those of you who see where I'm coming from, it's there for you to adopt.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

This is a forum to discuss Conan.

Yup.

 

[Spectator]

In S4's defense, I think he brings up a valid point, women are weaker than men PERIOD.
I guess I would have only one thing to add (to prevent silly results) would be "floor" for strength: so if you rolled a 6 for strength, you would not deduct 3, rather just leave it alone or something.
I like the int bonus (the skills bonus may simulate the more time a women has on her hands) as opposed to practicing martial activities.
I like the CON bonus too, I think that I read somewhere that women, pound for pound, and training time per training time are better marathoners than men, on the whole, so the CON has some justification.
As for Dex, I would have that a free point to spend between DEX, WIS, or CHA. No reason, but just to add some random-ness, heck I guess you could even add it to STR, if you wanted to!

But seriously, CONAN is neat because it based in reality and there are no females as strong as CONAN.
Bravo S4.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Bravo S4.

For what? Another poorly thought out houserule?

So, presumably, women can't choose to increse their STR at 4th level (8th, 12th, etc.), either, in case they overtake the superior male of the species? And, of course, they don't get to increse STR at 6th level, (10th, 14th, etc.), either, ey? Why? Because they're women!

I think, maybe I'd rule some characters should only get 1D6 INT around here...

If some of us love the Conan rpg so much, maybe some of us should stop trying to screw around with the rules in an attempt to crowbar in some limited ideas about what is 'realism' and what is not. You may find, then, that your pool of potential players would include the other 50% of the population. :roll:

Just wait til Julie Bourassa hears about this. :lol:

 

[Spectator]

Dear Prince,
I'm so sorry for being retarded, liking plausibility/ reality, and having an opinion that doesn't conform to yours.

In order to be liked and post on this forum I will forever agree with what you say/type.

I will call up Mongoose and tell them to allow me admin access so we can delete anybody who disagreed with you, where's that phone number now.

Oh, could you please re-roll my intelligence from 1d6, to a 3d4, since I realized the errors of my ways, or is that a Wisdom thing and my low intelligence remains at 1d6???

Your Obedient Minion,
Spec...

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Spec

You can have a 3 -18 spread in all your stats, (as long as you're not a goddamned woman, of course).

 

[Supplement Four]

The best thing to do is ignore him, Spectator.

Prince, if you want to get some respect, then stop bashing people and state in a plays-nice-with-others-fashion why you think the rule is not needed or useable.

Spectator, I like the idea of having limit. It makes sense. But, I think it should be something like: the min stat can be no lower than what is possible with racial modifiers.

Thus, a Cimmerian gets +2 STR and -2 INT. So, min STR is 5 and min INT is 1. All other stats min 3.



EDIT: After further thinking, though...

If the RAW rules allow for a Cimmerian to be: STR 5, DEX 3, CON 3, INT 1, WIS 3, and CHA 3 (very highly unlikely, but possible), then it's not a stretch to say that females can be minimum: STR 2, DEX 4, CON 4, INT 2, WIS 3, CHA 3.

So...by that logic, I think the minimum stat should be 1, just like it is after you apply racial modifiers.

 

[Spectator]

You are stupid and retarded and should have an INT of 1d6.
This post will be deleted soon.

The best thing to do is ignore him, Spectator.

Prince, if you want to get some respect, then stop bashing people and state in a plays-nice-with-others-fashion why you think the rule is not needed or useable.

Spectator, I like the idea of having limit. It makes sense. But, I think it should be something like: the min stat can be no lower than what is possible with racial modifiers.

Thus, a Cimmerian gets +2 STR and -2 INT. So, min STR is 5 and min INT is 1. All other stats min 3.



EDIT: After further thinking, though...

If the RAW rules allow for a Cimmerian to be: STR 5, DEX 3, CON 3, INT 1, WIS 3, and CHA 3 (very highly unlikely, but possible), then it's not a stretch to say that females can be minimum: STR 2, DEX 4, CON 4, INT 2, WIS 3, CHA 3.

So...by that logic, I think the minimum stat should be 1, just like it is after you apply racial modifiers.

 

[Spectator]

You are stupid and retarded and should have an INT of 1d6.
This post will be deleted soon.

I sad to even respond to this, but is getting far to far of the fact of real life, not know if any heard of it, it called Nature! When we look at animals (Human are Animal to, I am also wondering why I have to type this), the Male is the stronger, why, it not for you or I to make a decision on that and say I not agree with it, so it not real and I desired to change life and the truth, this is what we are, to argue with what is real and say it is not, will not turn this debate into a joke, it just makes you mad!

What is real is Nature is that Males are made stronger, just because a bunch of idiot gave Females equality does not mean they are!

Way am I explaining the obvious, Males mostly are stronger than Females and you Yyrkoon say they are not, do you ever leave your house??? in to day societies, weak Males are junkes and those who have lost the will the be strong, because they are brought up by people who say love and peace, thou shall not kill and where is my nuclear bomb, I need to threaten to blow the whole F**k'n planet up to protect my self, there is no sanity to these People, only madness!

But that will still never change Nature and in Nature for 99.999999999999999999% of living things, Males are make the stronger, why are Folks debating this, because you not want to insult Female Players, you insult me as a Male player by saying Females are equal in strength!

I go to gym and there are Females there, some you can see are muscular, but they go to machines and drop the weights to 30-50 lbs, the Males go back on them and raise the weights back up to 90-120 lbs and more, why, because that life, not it a Role-playing Game and stats should be equal because you think it insults Females, why should the truth insult!

So why give Cimmerians +2 Str, why not say if one is Cimmerian, just put your highest stat into Str, why, because, it that difference that makes the Game interesting!

A few unusual photos do not explain the other 6 billion people on planet, again with the majority of Males being stronger than Females!

Look at 1st photo, the Negress has no udders, she has trained her self out of her proper function in life, no udder mean no milk, she probably train so much her ovary's have close and she cannot become pregnant, until she stops training and allows then to function again! This is a Natural defence and if the Female training got pregnant would probably kill the un-born within her!

Photo two: she very tall, but not very strong, she probably got spinal problems and must suffer every day because of it, so you can wave a flag and say look something different! The reason she that tall is because certain chemicals in her body do not work and will not allow her to stop growing, this thing will probably kill her in another 10 years, but what do I know, I smashed my crystal ball in 15 years ago because I was tired analysing other Folks lives, but does not mean I want to live a lie to suit you or anyone else!

Males are born Stronger by a Natural genetic process, you arguing with it is obvious to me what your planning in your mind, Chaos and mayhem, if you want real life, just be honest with yourself, the Male of the Modern World, ie 21st Century is dying, he has no honour and no fight left in him, they take away the real focus of Male and put them behind type-writers to waste away, if the odd Female does some weight lighting and becomes stronger than me, the only reason I can analyse why this has happened is society is enslaving me to become just another drone that does as he is told and not a Man FREE to live a life as I choice, still no matter what i say here, I will not change any of this, just keep it real and stop wasting other Peoples time!

In an average temperate environment there is 3 Females to one Male, in Hotter places it is 7 Females to one Male, why, equality, NO, it because is a Child is born there is more chance of them dying from diseases, so hence more Females in hotter places, so technically on average around the whole World there is 5 Females to 1 Male, this mean by silly philosophy 4 females should live alone and never have Male company, but Nature Laws say, well work it out for yerselves, have you become that lazy???

I cannot believe I typing this again, my PbEM game here in this Forum does the near same, been doing it this last year and still get plenty of Players joining me, read the second rule:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=42142

This can go on forever and I truly ask you to stop thinking that a equal game will mean more Female Players! It insults me that The Male of this Species has lost his place in life for a few Feminist!!!

I out of here....!!!!

 

[Supplement Four]

I like Nialldubh's take on giving femals -2 STR but allowing the player to choose which stats get a bonus.

Above, I said -3 STR, and +1 DEX, +1 CON, +1 INT.

Nialldubh says: -2 STR and either +2 DEX or +2 CHA, player's choice.

What if you did something like this: You enforced the -3 STR, but then allowed the player to have +1 to any 3 of the character's 5 remaining stats?

That way, the sting is no so sharp, and the bonuses might help the female character really shine in areas where the player rolled well.

In some ways, this can be a benefit to a female charcter in boosting stats at the expense of one.

Thoughts?

 

[Spectator]

Before I smite thee with the Sword of Stupidity, because I disagree with you; BUT were I to share your viewpoint, I'd might entertain the thought that I would not be a fan of such even-steven trades (eg: +2 here, -2 there; it all evens out kinda thing). However, there might be some type of canonic allowance for such, because all the girls, save a select few, were pretty hot where Conan went, so maybe even a +3 CHA might be deserving for our female protagonist. After all, every chick that had a name (in the books), was usually pretty stunning-looking and/or had some type of charisma. There weren't any bad looking gals that come to my mind (with the exception of Zelata, the Aquilonian witch, from THE HOUR OF THE DRAGON).

I like Nialldubh's take on giving femals -2 STR but allowing the player to choose which stats get a bonus.

Above, I said -3 STR, and +1 DEX, +1 CON, +1 INT.

Nialldubh says: -2 STR and either +2 DEX or +2 CHA, player's choice.

What if you did something like this: You enforced the -3 STR, but then allowed the player to have +1 to any 3 of the character's 5 remaining stats?

That way, the sting is no so sharp, and the bonuses might help the female character really shine in areas where the player rolled well.

In some ways, this can be a benefit to a female charcter in boosting stats at the expense of one.

Thoughts?

 

[blacksagelobo]

Yeah, I know I said I wouldn't bother anymore, but this post is bordering on the offensive.

http://www.advocate.com/uploadedImages/ADVOCATE/EDITORIAL/NEWS/20090819/Caster_SemenyaX390.jpg

So you pick a women who's hormones are more male than female for your example (a bit of research online confirms this)... this does not help your argument. It is a fact that pound for pound men have more upper body strength than woman. No amount of pc belly-aching changes this fact. There is also the fact that women survive longer in food-deprivation situations than men.

I did a raw bench of 475 pounds two years ago. I was not the strongest person in the gym, but I was much stronger than the strongest woman in the gym. She was actually, pound for pound, the strongest person I have personally known. She benched 305 pounds and weighted 140, but in raw strength I was 50% stronger. I have not been able to confirm but I have not been able to find an account of a woman doing a raw BP over 475 lbs. There is really nothing to be offended about, facts are facts.

I think it is fair to hit women in strength as long as they are compensated elsewhere.

 

[Supplement Four]

Before I smite thee with the Sword of Stupidity, because I disagree with you;

I'm confused. Didn't you say:

But seriously, CONAN is neat because it based in reality and there are no females as strong as CONAN.
Bravo S4.

Up thread a bit? I'm not sure I'm getting your humor.

BUT were I to share your viewpoint, I'd might entertain the thought that I would not be a fan of such even-steven trades (eg: +2 here, -2 there; it all evens out kinda thing).

Why not? The original rule I read in the Greenland Saga supplement, btw, was not "even steven". It suggests -3 STR, +1 DEX, +1 CON. I slapped the +1 INT into it above to make it "even steven".



Here's my first thought: Is -3 STR too much? Should it be -2 STR or -1 STR?

Second, which stats should get bonuses? I kinda like the idea that the player gets to chose three stats to boost up by +1 when he takes the -3 STR.