Conan without Levels?
- Thread starter Higa
- Start date
A warning: Don't have players make up sorcerers (scholars)! My players goaded me into letting them make up players before I received my basic boook (Amazon has always taken forever to ship to me, whereas others have had no trouble), and one made up a Stygian Sorcerer. The gamebook doesn't list XP progression tables, so you don't really have to worry about WHEN they level up UNLESS YOU HAVE A SORCERER!!!
Why, because Sorcerers spend XP for many spells, skills, etc. Other classes don't. IMHO the game will run smoothly and easily if the only sorcerers are NPCs, it keeps mystery and terror into what otherwise becomes a rules debate.
Now then, enough for my rant. The game can easily run with levels if you just level up the PCs when you feel like it, ignoring XP values or Threat Levels and such. If that doesn't suit you, try picking up a used copy of the TSR Conan game from the '80s, it had NO level system at all, and all dierolling was d100 only, with one resolution table (rule book's only 30something pages, so don't expect much). Otherwise, Mongoose's system will work fine just levleing as you feel like it, or just have them make up their character at level 1-20, and then run them at various levels each session, out of level order. Several posters have reported doing it this way in the past. Hope this helps.
Why, because Sorcerers spend XP for many spells, skills, etc. Other classes don't. IMHO the game will run smoothly and easily if the only sorcerers are NPCs, it keeps mystery and terror into what otherwise becomes a rules debate.
Now then, enough for my rant. The game can easily run with levels if you just level up the PCs when you feel like it, ignoring XP values or Threat Levels and such. If that doesn't suit you, try picking up a used copy of the TSR Conan game from the '80s, it had NO level system at all, and all dierolling was d100 only, with one resolution table (rule book's only 30something pages, so don't expect much). Otherwise, Mongoose's system will work fine just levleing as you feel like it, or just have them make up their character at level 1-20, and then run them at various levels each session, out of level order. Several posters have reported doing it this way in the past. Hope this helps.
Sutek
Mongoose
As appropriate. What is an experience level anyway but a point at which the character suddenly gains insight enough to take advantage of his honin g of his abilities?
Honestly I don't see the issue with dishing out XP, especially in Conan. Here's why: It's all arbitrary and GM controlled awards anyway.
As the GM you don't have to worry about what a Grey Ape is "worth" in XP, you just have to worry about whether or not fighting that creature moves the story and characters along. The idea of XP too is that then the Players have an idea of where they are going and how much further they have to go. Since Conan is a merit based system only for XP (meaning that it doesn't have a Hit Dice = XP equivilency chart anywhere) you still guage how valuable an encounter is to the characters in your campaign.
Now if you want to just dole out levels, that's one way and it works great, but it also lets the players know that something is coming up. You say, "Well, you guys had better level up now, so make yourselves 6th," and the players all look at each other with glazed eyes wondering what you're about to throw at them next.
If you hand over XP it can becoem tediour ans seem artifical if the awards don't match the encounters or challenges. Sure, killing the bad guy is important, but just breaking into his stronghold without being spotted might be worth a lot more in terms of what the characters are and where they want to take the adventure. Deeds should be rewarded, not just wiping out the local wildlife, and Conan is totally set up to allow this to occur. This method lets the players also take an active role in advocating for thier characters. When these merit awards are handed out, those that don't get as many will ask, "What abou when I did such-and-such? That's gotta be worth something..." If you say it is or that it isn't, you train them to try and accomplish tasks based on the way you want to run the adventure. If you'd rather they used thier wits instead of relying oin skill checks, award that more. If not getting into combat is something ytou'd like to see more of, award more for avoiding and being clever and stealthy and not so much for duking it out and killing city guards left, right and center.
There's also a combination method, but I prefer to stick to arbitrary XP awards based on deeds. It keeps the characters involved and thinking, "I wonder what crazy thing I could do to get a bunch of XP...?"
Honestly I don't see the issue with dishing out XP, especially in Conan. Here's why: It's all arbitrary and GM controlled awards anyway.
As the GM you don't have to worry about what a Grey Ape is "worth" in XP, you just have to worry about whether or not fighting that creature moves the story and characters along. The idea of XP too is that then the Players have an idea of where they are going and how much further they have to go. Since Conan is a merit based system only for XP (meaning that it doesn't have a Hit Dice = XP equivilency chart anywhere) you still guage how valuable an encounter is to the characters in your campaign.
Now if you want to just dole out levels, that's one way and it works great, but it also lets the players know that something is coming up. You say, "Well, you guys had better level up now, so make yourselves 6th," and the players all look at each other with glazed eyes wondering what you're about to throw at them next.
If you hand over XP it can becoem tediour ans seem artifical if the awards don't match the encounters or challenges. Sure, killing the bad guy is important, but just breaking into his stronghold without being spotted might be worth a lot more in terms of what the characters are and where they want to take the adventure. Deeds should be rewarded, not just wiping out the local wildlife, and Conan is totally set up to allow this to occur. This method lets the players also take an active role in advocating for thier characters. When these merit awards are handed out, those that don't get as many will ask, "What abou when I did such-and-such? That's gotta be worth something..." If you say it is or that it isn't, you train them to try and accomplish tasks based on the way you want to run the adventure. If you'd rather they used thier wits instead of relying oin skill checks, award that more. If not getting into combat is something ytou'd like to see more of, award more for avoiding and being clever and stealthy and not so much for duking it out and killing city guards left, right and center.
There's also a combination method, but I prefer to stick to arbitrary XP awards based on deeds. It keeps the characters involved and thinking, "I wonder what crazy thing I could do to get a bunch of XP...?"
Higa said:
Depends on the achievements the PCs made (resp. would have made if a evil GM wouldn't have thwarted everything). On the beginning faster, later much, much slower. If you own ToBK: if 3 level PCs survive the first two adventures, I'd give them their 4th level.
Probably I'm not a very free-giving (correct word?) GM, but I think this is more realistic. Besides my group likes middle-level characters (everything over ca. 12th level is getting too powerful), so it is ok for them to advance at a relativley slow pace.
Mark Dunder
Mongoose
I still feel that David Cook's 1985 Conan Role-Playing Game is the best system designed for playing Conan. One thing you have to realize, is that this game allows a great deal of modifications. I have used this system for 20 years and even designed my own RPG with it's own Resolution Table. But I have come back to the original game and have started a major revision of it, by adding Talents and devising a new damage system. Most of you that only play using the D&D system (now called D20 system), may not ever play this original Conan RPG, but you will be missing out on some unique ways of role-playing that you can't find in other systems.
I plan to put up a support page for Cook's Conan RPG, with information on all of the expanded rules including the Impact Bonus, Aiming Points, and Specific Wounds, first introduced by William Carlson in the Dragon magazine issue of September 1986.
Good luck on trying to take out the Level system in the D20 system, luckily, our game doesn't use that.
I plan to put up a support page for Cook's Conan RPG, with information on all of the expanded rules including the Impact Bonus, Aiming Points, and Specific Wounds, first introduced by William Carlson in the Dragon magazine issue of September 1986.
Good luck on trying to take out the Level system in the D20 system, luckily, our game doesn't use that.
Evil_Trevor
Mongoose
The first time I ran a CONAN based RPG, there was a 'Conan' set of rules for GURPS but I hated GURPS (You must take five 'flaws') so I went looking for something else and found Fudge.
Fudge does not have classes or levels. it is very different from every other RPG I have ever played (since '91) All abilities and the like are on a scale of 'Appauling, Terrible, Poor, Mediocre, Fair, Good, Great, Superb, Legendary' while the damage is recorded as 'Scratched, Hurt, Very Hurt, Incapacitated, Destroyed' In order to do anything the P.C. needed a 'skill' and he rolled 3d6 on a simple table to see how well he had done.
In terms of advancement as the player gained XP (Fudge points) he could increase existing skills or abilities or buy new ones. In order to increase an ability the player had to make the case to the g.m. as in -- "I'm now taking regular baths and I don't threaten eveyone I meet, can I have a higher charisma ?"
The system is still going strong after 10 years, it is a 'free' set of rules that anyone can use and anyone can publish both the core rules and their own material for it. there is a zine at http://www.fudgefactor.org/ and the game is distributed free over the net from amongst other places http://www.fudgerpg.com/ where you can get 'proper' printed versions too.
Fudge does not have classes or levels. it is very different from every other RPG I have ever played (since '91) All abilities and the like are on a scale of 'Appauling, Terrible, Poor, Mediocre, Fair, Good, Great, Superb, Legendary' while the damage is recorded as 'Scratched, Hurt, Very Hurt, Incapacitated, Destroyed' In order to do anything the P.C. needed a 'skill' and he rolled 3d6 on a simple table to see how well he had done.
In terms of advancement as the player gained XP (Fudge points) he could increase existing skills or abilities or buy new ones. In order to increase an ability the player had to make the case to the g.m. as in -- "I'm now taking regular baths and I don't threaten eveyone I meet, can I have a higher charisma ?"
The system is still going strong after 10 years, it is a 'free' set of rules that anyone can use and anyone can publish both the core rules and their own material for it. there is a zine at http://www.fudgefactor.org/ and the game is distributed free over the net from amongst other places http://www.fudgerpg.com/ where you can get 'proper' printed versions too.
Mark Dunder
Mongoose
FUDGE is a good system, and besides it's free. I like the damage system and use a similar one for Conan (light, major, severe, critical) that corresponds with the four Color Results used on the Resolution Table.
I find, after 20 years of collecting and playing RPGs, that the simple games give me the most satisfaction for the fantasy genre.
Actually, the original game that GURPS is based on, was The Fantasy Trip, and that had well designed "mechanics" working together for a smooth game flow.
I tried to create an RPG that was realistic, but have concluded that it would take many lifetimes to do that. So, I went back to KISS.
I find, after 20 years of collecting and playing RPGs, that the simple games give me the most satisfaction for the fantasy genre.
Actually, the original game that GURPS is based on, was The Fantasy Trip, and that had well designed "mechanics" working together for a smooth game flow.
I tried to create an RPG that was realistic, but have concluded that it would take many lifetimes to do that. So, I went back to KISS.
DourDeadlyPuritan
Mongoose
Anyone play Mutants & Masterminds? They have a great point-buying system, as well as a clean, straighforward damage system. I'm sticking with the Conan RPG rules as they stand, but converting character creation and progression with M&M rules might be cool.
Mark Dunder
Mongoose
No, but I would like to collect the game (M&M) if the system is unique. Has it been newly published, or can I get the game somewhere used?
I think Experience Levels should be treated exactly as that, experience. Certain experiences cannot easily be taught. Unless you get on a horse and ride it, no one can explain the thrill of riding across a field at a gallup, can they? Riding in an airplane, jumping out of said plane (which I've never done), has to be experienced. If you've never been hit by a hard fist in the face (many of us may have had that experience
), you might not be able to recover fast enough to nail the guy right back. You would stand their stunned, while the guy laughs at you. So I think Experience Levels do have merit, but I think they can be represented as separate levels for each skill, ability, proficiency, or what have you.
I don't think you should base your hit points on experience. Fighting experience should help lower the chance to be hit, but once you get hit, that's it baby. Let's hope it's not a natural 20!
Maybe I'm way off base here, but perhaps you can use the Exp. Lvl. as a form of Worldly Wisdom. Even if you're not too good of a player, the GM can say something like this; "Oh, you wouldn't want to do that, not as a 15th level Monster Slayer, the Giant Slug wouldn't even feel that!"
I think Experience Levels should be treated exactly as that, experience. Certain experiences cannot easily be taught. Unless you get on a horse and ride it, no one can explain the thrill of riding across a field at a gallup, can they? Riding in an airplane, jumping out of said plane (which I've never done), has to be experienced. If you've never been hit by a hard fist in the face (many of us may have had that experience
), you might not be able to recover fast enough to nail the guy right back. You would stand their stunned, while the guy laughs at you. So I think Experience Levels do have merit, but I think they can be represented as separate levels for each skill, ability, proficiency, or what have you.I don't think you should base your hit points on experience. Fighting experience should help lower the chance to be hit, but once you get hit, that's it baby. Let's hope it's not a natural 20!
Maybe I'm way off base here, but perhaps you can use the Exp. Lvl. as a form of Worldly Wisdom. Even if you're not too good of a player, the GM can say something like this; "Oh, you wouldn't want to do that, not as a 15th level Monster Slayer, the Giant Slug wouldn't even feel that!"
DourDeadlyPuritan
Mongoose
Here are some reviews of M&M:
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/search-review.phtml
I think those are just from the 1st edition, which had been out for about a couple years. 2nd Edition came out a few months ago iirc. It's considered one of the best rpgs out there, but it's for Superhero games. It's based on the OGL.
edit: oops, can't link to the reviews. Oh well, just type in "Mutants & Masterminds" and "Mutants and Masterminds" in there. :wink:
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/search-review.phtml
I think those are just from the 1st edition, which had been out for about a couple years. 2nd Edition came out a few months ago iirc. It's considered one of the best rpgs out there, but it's for Superhero games. It's based on the OGL.
edit: oops, can't link to the reviews. Oh well, just type in "Mutants & Masterminds" and "Mutants and Masterminds" in there. :wink:
