[CONAN] Two weapon combat vs. Improved Two weapon Combat

[Spectator]

OK I was statting up a vanir Barbarian (8th level).
In the class Features section of Barbarian (p.42 of the 2nd Ed Core Rules) it states that Barbarians get two weapon combat feat for free. Cool.
So I look at what that entails (p.140, ibid); the feat basically states that the PC can use his primary weapon and a light weapon in his off-hand without any penalty, on either. That's COOL I wanted my Barbarian to wield a broadsword and an axe (one handed and light, respectively) so no penalty would be incurred. I figured homeboy would have his BAB of 8/3 on each weapon for a total of for attacks.

The Rub:

I was scoping out IMPROVED two weapon Combat (p.130, ibid). In the "normal" section (below the "Benefits" section) it states that the PC can NORMALLY only make one attack per round with the off hand weapon.

SO.............
If I only have the standard Two-Weapon Combat feat:

1. AM I NOT able to make a 8/3 attack with my off hand light weapon (axe)?
2. AM I only allowed 1 attack at +8?
3. Is the Normal section under the improved-2-weapon-combat referring to normal-normal folks who don't have the standard 2-weapon combat feat?
4. I'm skeptical about the correctness since the Improved 2 weapons feat has an error in the benefits section, see how they tell that the off-hand should get -5 to the full attack, but they stiill write that the poniard-offhand-wielding dude gets 20/15/10/5 on his attack (whilst according to their rules as written, it would be 15/10/5/0).

What gives?

PS I did a dearch here and nothing came up. please try if you can though.
Thx.

 

[Supplement Four]

The mistake you are making is with the off-hand hit. It doesn't use the lower modifier. It uses the primiary attack modifier.

Look at pg. 203 of the 2E RPG for clarification.

Thus...

A 3rd level Barbarian with the free Two Weapon Combat Feat has BAB +3 with both attacks: +3 with broadsword and +3 with axe.

At 8th level, provided no other Feats were taken to change things, this Barbarian would have BAB +8/+3, as you said. Remember that the BAB represents the modifiers to the primary weapon. And, the Two Weapon Combat Feat gives the Barbarian an extra attack with the smaller weapon at the best BAB. See the example on pg. 203.

Thus, that 8th level Barbarian would get three attacks: +8 with broadsword, +3 with broadsword, +8 with axe.





What the Improved Two Weapon Combat Feat does for you is give you extra attacks, albeit with a penalty, for your off-hand weapon. Thus, the 8th level Barbarian, with the Feat, would get four attacks: +8 with broadsword, +3 with broadsword, +8 with axe, +3 with axe.

2 Main Weapon attacks provided by character's level
+8 with broadsword
+3 with broadsword

1 Extra attack provided by Two-Weapon Combat Feat at primary BAB
+8 with axe

1 Extra attack provided by Improved Two-Weapon Combat Feat at Primary BAB -5.
+3 with axe.





At 11th level, your barbarian would pick up a third extra attack with his off-hand weapon due to the Improved Feat, like this:

3 Main Weapon attacks provided by character's level
+11 with broadsword
+6 with broadsword
+1 with broadsword

1 Extra attack provided by Two-Weapon Combat Feat at primary BAB
+11 with axe

2 Extra attacks provided by Improved Two-Weapon Combat Feat.
+6 with axe (BAB -5)
+1 with axe (BAB -10).

 

[Spectator]

Thanks for helping out. I always was under the assumption that if you made any off hand attack and it was 8 (or any number over 5) that you would score a second hit at -5. your explanation makes sense!

 

[Mach5RR]

OK I was statting up a vanir Barbarian (8th level).
4. I'm skeptical about the correctness since the Improved 2 weapons feat has an error in the benefits section, see how they tell that the off-hand should get -5 to the full attack, but they stiill write that the poniard-offhand-wielding dude gets 20/15/10/5 on his attack (whilst according to their rules as written, it would be 15/10/5/0).

You misread the benefit. I can say this, because I also misread the benefit (it's not the clearest thing in the world).

Benefit: When you fight with two weapons and take a full attack action, you may make a second attack with the offhand weapon, albeit at a –5 penalty. For every five points of base attack bonus you have above +6, you may make one additional attack with your off-hand weapon when taking a full attack action, to a maximum of four attacks at a Base attack bonus of +16.

The keywords in the benefit are second attack. The first attack is calculated as normal, the second attack is calculated as a -5. The part that tripped me was the reference to a BAB of +16, as I initially thought that's what the attacks maxed out on. That part refers to when you get your fourth and final attack. The problem with the writing is they overwrote it trying to explain something simple (for every primary attack you make, you can make an offhand attack at the same BAB, with associated penalties for weapon types), plus they weren't really clear if the feat was making a reference with starting with the 2nd off hand attack, or the 1st.

 

[Spectator]

Thanks, sometimes I feel stupid, but on this one, they did really make it more complex than it needed to be.