[CONAN] Taunt

[Supplement Four]

I was playing around with the Neverwinter Nights computer game today (never played it before, and it's been sitting around for a couple of years--found it for cheap and stuck it in a pile) and I saw a neat skill while looking at character creation.

The skill is Taunt.

It's governed by CHA. Basically what you do when you make a check is provoke an enemy to drop his guard with all the cruel crap you're saying to him while fighting him.

It's a standard action to use the skill in battle, and it's an opposed roll vs. the Concentration skill. Success means that the defender is so frustrated at the shite you're spillin' that he drops his guard a bit. That "bit" is a penalty to AC equal to the difference in throws.




Now, first off, I think that it's a neat thing for the Conan game. Especially for Cimmerians. Even in the Cimmeria sourcebook (where a Taunt Feat is included), it describes Cimmerians on the shield wall lifting their kilts and snakin' the enemy, taunting them to come out and play.

I don't think it should be a skill, though. It's too focussed in its use. I'm thinking it would fit the Conan RPG better if it were a use of, say, the Intimidate skill.

And, I'm not sure it should be an Opposed Roll vs. Concentration. I think the Level check used to defeat Intimidation is a better choice.

Other than that, I think the skill use will work the same (requires a standard actions to perform, the penalty is calculated the same way).



Another way to go about this would be to make it a Feat. The Feat allows Intimidate to be used that way. That's a fair way to go because the success benefit is pretty good.



Or...you coud make it a Perform skill, as in: Perform (Taunt). It seems a bit too specific and restrive this way (I like the Feat or Intimidate skill use option better)



Even another way to go would be to make Taunt a special ability, like the Cimmerian's Fearless, Crimison Mist, or Uncanny Dodge abilities.



And, even ANOTHER way to go would be to turn this into a combat maneuver. I'm not sure what the pre-requisites would be, if any.



What are your thoughts?

 

[Spectator]

I think that as a Feat, its a wasted one, there are only a limited # of feats you get, and putting them to use on your core "warrior" feats is tough to do as it is, already.
I'd rather have great cleave than this, anyday.
Don't mean to be a downer, its just that a 6-7 th lvl character only may have 4-5 feats to fool around with.

 

[Supplement Four]

I think that as a Feat, its a wasted one, there are only a limited # of feats you get, and putting them to use on your core "warrior" feats is tough to do as it is, already.
I'd rather have great cleave than this, anyday.
Don't mean to be a downer, its just that a 6-7 th lvl character only may have 4-5 feats to fool around with.

I hear ya and agree. There's several other options, though: as a function of a skill like Intimidate; as a new skill; as a Perform skill; as a combat maneuver; as a special ability tied to a class...

 

[Spectator]

I think this works better w/o skills and feats as we've been talking about the last couple of days.

 

[Supplement Four]

Looking at the Perform (Taunt) skill in the Cimmeria book, I think that's the way to go. Just use it as another way to use that skill, making the skill that much more useful.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm thinking about going with the Taunt skill as written in the computer game.

This will give non-sorcerers three good combat reasons to like CHA.

1. Feint maneuver with the Bluff skill, opposed by Sense Motive.

2. Demoralize Opponent action of the Intimidate skill, opposed by a special character level throw.

3. Taunt, using the Perform (Taunt) skill, opposed by a Concentration check*



*And I think it would be appropriate to modifier the Concentration throw in this instance with the BAB of the defender, just like Sense Motive is booted that way under the Demoralize Opponent action.

 

[Supplement Four]

So, this is how I'm thinking of implementing the Taunt skill in my game:


Perform (Taunt), CHA.

The procedure is similar to how the Feint maneuver is used under the Bluff skill.

1 - Player uses a standard action to taunt (basically giving up his attack to make the skill attempt).

2 - Player rolls Perofrm (Taunt) check normally.

3 - Defender rolls Concentration check. He can add in his BAB as a modifier to this throw.



If Player wins, defender suffers from a defense penalty equal to the difference of the opposed throw, to a maximum of -6, during the PC's next attack.

If Player loses, the cost is the attack is he already gave up to try.



And, don't forget, you can always try to taunt someone, even if you haven't got the skill.



EXAMPLE

In melee, Thrallan says something nasty about Caelis' mother. This initiates the Taunt throw. Thrallan gives up is next attack, and instead, Taunts Caelis.

Thrallan throws Perform (Taunt), gettng a 9.

Caelis throws Concentration + BAB, getting a 6.

This means, on Caelis' next attack, Thrallan will have a -3 appilied to his defense. Lasts for one round only.

 

[Supplement Four]

How about this:

PERFORM (TAUNT)

This is a standard action. You roll your Taunt skill. Your opponent rolls his Concentration skill modified by BAB and WIL save. If you win, your opponent suffers a penalty to defense equal to the difference in the two dice throws to a maximum of -6.

You can attempt to a number of times until your opponent wins this Concentration throw. After that, your taunting will be ignored.

 

[Mach5RR]

I'm curious as to why a whole new skill? If you're intent is to NOT be the repetition of 'Intimidate', who not just have it fall under an alternate use of Diplomacy? If you think about it Diplomacy is the art of knowing the best thing to say to sway someones opinion. But the flip side is, you also can think of the WORST thing to say.

Also, not a big fan of using concentration as a defense for this. Sure, it gives sorcerers something else to resist, but is it necessary to have non-sorcerers tie up more skill points on the off chance their going to need it to resist? And with a max penalty of -6 (I really recommend no pluses/penalties over a 3), EVERYONE will become Zen Masters in the hopes of avoiding this. Also, your going to start having to load up your NPCs with concentration to avoid this, and it starts to look ridiculous when everyone is sporting it.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm curious as to why a whole new skill?

Because it's already a skill in the Cimmeria sourcebook. I was just beefing it up, giving players a reason to put points into it.

Also, you don't want CHA to become too powerful in combat. Using different skills for feint (Bluff), demoralize opponent (Intimidate), and now this, keeps a player from taking advantage of mechanics.

Also, not a big fan of using concentration as a defense for this.

I wanted to make Concentration more valuable in a non-Sorcerous way. Plus, the rule comes from the Neverwinter Nights computer game, almost as-is. That's how they use it.

Plus, I like how it "fits" with the other two "CHA" based combat approaches.

Demoralize Opponent (Intiidate) is thrown against a special level roll of d20 + Level + WIS modifier + Fear modifier. Success lasts for one attack, and you can only attempt this once per combat.

Feint (Bluff) is thrown against Sense Motive + BAB. Success lasts for one round, and you can attempt it as many times as you want.

Perform (Taunt) is thrown against Concentration + BAB + WIL modifier, and success can recur as many times as the foe fails the rebuttal Concentration throw.''


If a player wants to specialize in one of these, he can, but skill points are two rare for a character to become "good" in all three areas.

And with a max penalty of -6 (I really recommend no pluses/penalties over a 3), EVERYONE will become Zen Masters in the hopes of avoiding this.

You've a point, there. This is why I post these things. The original rule in the NWN computer game is to have it last for several rounds. I changed it to only one.

A lot of things have to go the warrior's way in order to get it. I beefed up the Concentration check with two modifiers instead of just one like the Sense Motive check (Feint).

I envisioned the occasional -6 to defense popping up, but, more likely would be a -1 or -2 to defense, or a waste an attack for nothing when the throw is failed. What about a max of -4?

Also, your going to start having to load up your NPCs with concentration to avoid this, and it starts to look ridiculous when everyone is sporting it.

Do you think that will happen with skill points being as rare as they are?