[CONAN] Pole Vault Kick

[Supplement Four]

Here's the situation I'm looking to govern: NPC has a stury staff or spear. He sprints, jabs the pole into the ground, then lunges, feet first, pole vault style, into an enemy, knocking him down.

How would you govern this in the game? Make it a Jump check? A Tumble check? Maybe it's one of these checks as a combat maneuver?

Maybe it's a special form of the Bull Rush? Charge? Trip?

Maybe it's a version of the Overrun?

Maybe it's a case of Use The Battlefield (except this would be Use The Spear or Quarterstaff)?

Maybe it's a Feat? Or, a Feat in combination with one of the above?

How would you handle this mechanically?

 

[Nyarlathotep5150]

I'd set it up as a combat maneuver that builds on Bull Rush. Set some prerequisites (probably a minimum Dexterity, Minimum Tumble, whatever else seems appropriate) to let the character do a Bull Rush that does damage on a success.

 

[Mach5RR]

Mechanically, I would call it a bull rush. At the gaming table, I would call it a bull rush with style and either reward the imaginative player with either a fate point or some on the spot XP (my preferred resolution).

 

[Supplement Four]

I've been leaning towards the Bull Rush, too. I'm not looking for the maneuver to injure the target--just knock him prone so that the pole vaulter has him at an advantage by standing over the prone target after the maneuver.

What doesn't "fit" about the Bull Rush, to me, is the Attack of Opportunity the target gets right off the bat. The AoO makes sense with someone running at you, but pole vaulting through the air?

I do think there should be a down side to attempting the pole vault. I don't want it to be too powerful. With the Bull Rush, you're giving the enemy a free AoO on you right at the beginning of the maneuver.

With the pole vault, maybe the risk is failing the check (Tumble or Jump?), and if you do so, you wind up on your hiney with the target standing over your prone butt.

I guess it could still be a version of the Bull Rush even if I change the AoO at the begining of that maneuver.

 

[Ichabod]

Why doesn't the AoO make sense?

Seems reasonable to me that someone flying through the air is a pretty easy target, being just as easy to redirect or cut in half as someone charging who isn't skilled at charging.

That's the thing. If a vault is being done by someone skilled at such things, then that's one thing. If it's just some random dude, then I'd expect it to be a comedic moment like you see in mass melees in movies where some extra just goes flying into a wall or gets cut in half midair.

Which leads me to an idea that just came to me - new use of Fate Points. Can spend a Fate Point to have a feat temporarily or one-shot (depending upon flavor, Endurance would be temporary, Improved Bull Rush would be one-shot). Can probably safely ignore prerequisites for most feats in the name of doing something cool and at the hefty cost of a Fate Point*.

* Depends, of course, on how common FPs are in one's campaign. If common, then maybe there's something flawed here.

 

[Spectator]

I totally agree w/ Ichabod.
This maneuver is a recipe for a PC to be sliced in half in mid-air.
Watch a pole vaulting event! IN REAL LIFE!
Those guys haul ass down the field then their kinetic energy has to be transferred upwards (which completely slows them down), then they fall at gravity's pace downward. Their hand are up in the air and they are falling back first.

I'd love to be the Vanir barbarian waiting for some Cimmerian doofus to polevault into my shield wall!!!

Why doesn't the AoO make sense?

Seems reasonable to me that someone flying through the air is a pretty easy target, being just as easy to redirect or cut in half as someone charging who isn't skilled at charging.

That's the thing. If a vault is being done by someone skilled at such things, then that's one thing. If it's just some random dude, then I'd expect it to be a comedic moment like you see in mass melees in movies where some extra just goes flying into a wall or gets cut in half midair.

Which leads me to an idea that just came to me - new use of Fate Points. Can spend a Fate Point to have a feat temporarily or one-shot (depending upon flavor, Endurance would be temporary, Improved Bull Rush would be one-shot). Can probably safely ignore prerequisites for most feats in the name of doing something cool and at the hefty cost of a Fate Point*.

* Depends, of course, on how common FPs are in one's campaign. If common, then maybe there's something flawed here.

 

[Supplement Four]

I totally agree w/ Ichabod.
This maneuver is a recipe for a PC to be sliced in half in mid-air.

Well, heck, I guess I'm agreeing with Ichabod now, too!

That's why I like to discuss this stuff here. I try to keep an open mind. :shock:

 

[Supplement Four]

Studying the rules, I think this needs to be a combat maneuver--a version of the charge + overrun.

1. Instead of allowing the defender to chose to avoid the overrun, there will be a check, if he wants it: Most likely, this check will be defender's DEX or Reflex vs. vaulter's Jump. But, the defender will have a choice on whether he wants to try to avoid or not. He can stand his ground and do nothing if he wants.

2. The defender will get an Attack of Opportunity on the pole vaulter as the jumper enters the defender's square.

3. The pole vault attempt will be based on Jump, with maybe a modifier (maybe not). The attempt itself needs a DC, because the vaulter could have a mishap, like having his spear slip in the mud, not bearing his weight, or some such calamity.

4. The rest of the maneuver will be run according to the overrun rules to where the defender or the defender + attacker may be knocked prone.

5. The idea of the attack is to have a spearman run at an enemy, then use his spear to pole vault into his target, knocking him down, ending the action standing above the enemy with the enemy prone.

6. In my campaign, this is going to be a specialized attack known by a certain Cimmerian tribe--the Grath. It will be known as the "Grath Attack".





EDIT: Maybe the Grath should also use some sort of special construction spear? Something that makes it flexible? Are we talking a long war spear or a shorter hunting spear? The length of the spear will determine the distance.

All of these questions need to be answered. I lean towards the war spear because, first, this isn't a maneuver you'd use while hunting, and second, the war spear is longer and not meant to be thrown. Therefore, it's construction can be a bit different, maybe made from a strong cane that grows around the Diamondrun River in the Grath territory?

Food for thought.





2ND EDIT: If this is a specialized Grath manevuer...

I picture a Grath, teeth filed down to points, kilt made of reptillian skin, with scars on his arms and the clover tatoo on his forehead, running at you, screaming a war cry from the bottom of his chest, as his spear digs into the ground...up he goes! His arm muscles straining. His mouth open, screaming the entire time. And, two booted feet sailing directly at you.

What about working and Intimidate throw into the Grath Attack so that the defender may be shaken that first turn?

 

[Boneguard]

And theres probably a dex check for the polevaulter at the end...afterall once you finish flying (with the AoO) and hit the guy with your feet, you also have to concider your own landing: At best you are in a stable crouch/crouching position facing your opponent; at worse you fell flat on your belly and are prone.

 

[rabindranath72]

I would say, think in terms of the effect the maneuver should have.
Slightly unrelated, but something similar happened in my latest Classic D&D session. The player said he wanted to knock down the orc. I allowed a to hit roll with a penalty; if he succeeded the orc would be on the ground and lose the next round. If he failed, HE would be on the ground at the mercy of the orc.
In the end, just try to balance the effect with the potential loss.