CONAN : Massive Damage & Creatures

[LucaCherstich]

I've already posted this topic in the "Conan" section, but I think this is also a good place to ask, hoping that somebody at Mongoose gives me the "official" answer.
This is my problem:

The Massive Damage rules are always been among the best improvements of d20 which Mongoose ever did.
However, the 2e Manual does not clearly state whether the rules apply also to the damage dealt to enemies other than humans.
I know that humans are 80% of the enemies in Conan, but if your barbarian just hits a mummy dealing 20 points of damage, you want to know whether the rules apply or not!

My doubts regard:

1) Undead. They are immune to critical damage and to sneak attaks. NO MENTION of Massive damage. DO they suffer it or not?

2) Demons. Similar considerations.

3) Large (and bigger) and Small (and smaller) creatures. You need 20 points of damage to do a massive wound to that Pictish warrior...what's the effect of the same wound to a Stegosaurus??? I think in that case one should think about Massive Damages of at least 30-50 points.... On the otehr hand killing a small viper should need 10-15 wounds...

4) I apply the massive Damage rules to ANY KIND of damage, not just combat wounds but also the damage done by Fire, Falling, Magic Spells, etc..... Do you do the same?

 

[Clovenhoof]

It's a good question, but apparently not one we're going to get answered officially. The rules are indeed not very clear in this respect.

Basically, I'd say the MD rule applies to all creatures, bearing two things in mind:
1. small creatures are likely to have <20HP altogether, so it doesn't matter whether you MD them or not.
2. big creatures have a high Fort save, effectively requiring much more than 20 pts of damage to fail their save and drop. However I do know of some houserules increasing the MDT by 5 or 10 per size category.

Also, yes you should apply it to all kinds of damage. For instance Falling damage. Iirc you take 1d6 per 10' fallen, so a 100HP character could survive at least a 150' drop if MD didn't apply. Same goes for all other damage sources. Being immersed in molten lava is no less uncomfortable than getting an axe to the forehead.

Now for the tricky part... special monsters like Undead and Demons. I have similar doubts as you there. It would be logical that creatures immune to Critical hits aren't impressed by getting their head chopped off (though I would rule that a beheaded mummy would act rather disoriented in that case).
However, what evidence do we find in the stories? Conan doesn't manage to kill every demon he encounters, but sometimes he does. Maybe manifested demons are indeed vulnerable to MD? I really do not know.

 

[LucaCherstich]

I think we DEFINITIVELY need a decent, official answer for this question!
I discovered that Undead are immune to Massive Damage (Bestiary of the Hyborian Age, page 165), and even swarms are immune to them (page 166), but STILL I'm not sure about large, huge and even bigger creatures!
D20 has different Massive Damages for bigger creatures, so I think that even Conan rpg should have different Massive Damage rates!
I find ridicolous that the same killing blow could kill a Tyrannoraurus OR a cat!
I know that the Tyrannoaurus has a better Save score...but still it sounds odd to me that it has top roll!
I do not know your games but in my Conan games the Massive Damage rules are extremely important and this is one of the rules which make more different Conan from another d20 game.
My players always try to adjust their attack strategies in order to get at leats 20 points of damage!

 

[treeplanter]

Use the most important rule in Conan.

"If there is a rule in the book you don't like then just change it."

 

[Hervé]

I houseruled you can MD only one size larger than yourself. Undead are immune and for demons it depends of my fancy.

 

[decker423]

I houseruled you can MD only one size larger than yourself. Undead are immune and for demons it depends of my fancy.

That's a good house rule! I like it.

 

[Supplement Four]

My doubts regard:

1) Undead. They are immune to critical damage and to sneak attaks. NO MENTION of Massive damage. DO they suffer it or not?

2) Demons. Similar considerations.

3) Large (and bigger) and Small (and smaller) creatures. You need 20 points of damage to do a massive wound to that Pictish warrior...what's the effect of the same wound to a Stegosaurus??? I think in that case one should think about Massive Damages of at least 30-50 points.... On the otehr hand killing a small viper should need 10-15 wounds...

4) I apply the massive Damage rules to ANY KIND of damage, not just combat wounds but also the damage done by Fire, Falling, Magic Spells, etc..... Do you do the same?

Most of these questions are answered in the Under The Skin chapter of the Bestiary of the Hyborian Age. For example, all critters classified as Undead Type are immune to poisons, diseases, critical hits, sneak attacks, and death by massive damage. Demon abilities are described on a per-case basis.

As for size and Massive Damage, the rules do not (from what I've found) speak to size. I checked the 3.5 D&D PHB and the Pathfinder book as well. None describe any alteration to the Massive Damage rules due to size (though I have seen creature stats where the creature is immune to Fortitude saves).

My knee-jerk suggestion is to add in the creature's size modifier to his Fort Save to avoid the effects of Massive Damage.