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[rabindranath72]

I personally don't have a problem with people referring to 'Hyboria'.
There is a continent called Africa, filled with assorted African nations but ultimately (almost) everyone living there is African.Same with Europe.
Therefore, using the same logic, that part of Howard's world where the Hyborians predominate in their own myriad Kingdoms could feasibly be referred to as Hyboria. I don't see the problem except in places like Turan, Shem, Khitai etc where the people are clearly not Hyborians.
I don't understand why people are getting a flea up their collective a***s about this. Bob may never have used the phrase but depending on the context on which it is used, it may be neither incorrect nor inappropriate.
There are many things which Bob did not say but which we in his fan community(of gamers and readers) assume, so where's the problem guys? :roll:

It seems to me quite clear that the word "Hyborian" is a cultural adjective which refers to the Hyborians (or Hybori) not to any land masses. Considering then that only a few of the Hyborian Age countries are actually inhabited by Hyborians or their descendants at all, it's also very difficult to give a map of "Hyboria." It's far easier instead to use the adjective, and mark the whole age due to the cultural influence and importance of the Hyborian nations.

 

[lastbesthope]

Therefore, using the same logic, that part of Howard's world where the Hyborians predominate in their own myriad Kingdoms could feasibly be referred to as Hyboria. I don't see the problem except in places like Turan, Shem, Khitai etc where the people are clearly not Hyborians.

Don't forget that the Picts and the Cimmerians aren't Hyborians, either. And, the Zamorians aren't Hyborians, when Zamora is smack dab tucked in tight right next to all of those Hyborian nations.

As a Scot I'm used to this when people think England is the same as the United Kingdom...

LBH

 

[tarkhan bey]

OK guys, you need to revisit my initial post and read it properly.

1) I make no mention of the 'world' being referred to as Hyboria. AFAIC it is Earth in the Hyborian Age.

2) I have already explained that IMO there are contexts where the term Hyboria could be used and not 'necessarily' be incorrect ie; as a geographically descriptive term referring to the cluster of Hyborian nations existing in the west of the 'Thurian' continent.(Just because Howard didn't coin the phrase, doesn't make it redundant-there are many things supposed by Howard scholars like Vincent and Darkstorm because they are not unreasonable).

3) Supp4, I am well aware that Europe was not referred to (at least in common parlance) as Europa in the early modern age. By the same token that age was not referred to as the European Age either. Therefore the comparison between Europa and Hyboria is a little flawed in its logic.

4) Supp4, In the initial post I also make reference to my reservations about the term being usable regarding countries and nations that are not 'actually' Hyborian in culture.

5) Rabindranath, I agree, 'Hyborian' refers to a culture. 'Hyboria' as I am using it refers to a geographical locale. I disagree with your surmise that the Hyborian nations cannot be gathered together due to the difficulties of map making. All the Hyborian nations are clustered together with the exception of Hyperborea and handily bordered by other countries of non Hyborian culture to delineate them.

6) LBH, I am from Belfast in Northern Ireland where culture and nationality are a constant thorny issue. I am well aware of the political and cultural differences between the countries that comprise both the UK,GB and the British/Irish isles.You will never get me confusing any of those things.

Anyway, that's my rant over. I still consider myself to be a Howard purist and I still don't see the problem with 'Hyboria' as a term, if used in a particular context.

 

[rabindranath72]

5) Rabindranath, I agree, 'Hyborian' refers to a culture. 'Hyboria' as I am using it refers to a geographical locale. I disagree with your surmise that the Hyborian nations cannot be gathered together due to the difficulties of map making. All the Hyborian nations are clustered together with the exception of Hyperborea and handily bordered by other countries of non Hyborian culture to delineate them.

But then, "Hyboria" as a name for land defines only a small cluster of kingdoms, whereas "Hyborian" applied to a whole age has a much broader scope and meaning, which continues to be true even when the "Hyboria" word becomes geographically meaningless, e.g. at the start and end of the age.
Given the detailed descriptions in his essay, it seems plausible that if Howard had wanted to call that small, changing cluster of kingdoms "Hyboria" he would have used it. Instead, he chose the word Hyborian to mark a whole culture and its impact over a relatively large historical period, which goes well beyond any geographical definition.

So, IMO the use of the word "Hyboria" simply amounts to sloppy research.

 

[kintire]

But then, "Hyboria" as a name for land defines only a small cluster of kingdoms,

Quite a large cluster of kingdoms, actually, and the dominant culture of the age at least in the west.

And, since we have no idea what area the reference refers to, that could be the group of kingdoms they are talking about!

 

[Supplement Four]

If you're going to use the term "Hyboria" to describe the entire world, you might as well also call the entire world "The Black Kingdoms".

I have yet to see a map, though, that describes Conan's world as such.

 

[LucaCherstich]

I have to say, I am becoming a very big Jason Momua fan, I really think his physiqye is more BARBARIAN than Arnie's roided out physique. I like the natural muscle and range-y strength he has, I wish he a tad more celtic looking though!

If you read REH it is clear that Cimmerian culture is pseudo-celtic-like, but Conan looking is definitively not Celtic.
According to REH He has black hair, dark complexion and a skin which gets dark tanned under the Sun of the southern regions...while I've yet to see a Welsh or Scottish or Irish tourist not burning and getting pepper-red under the Italian or Greek sun!

 

[tarkhan bey]

Supp4, you seem to have become obsessed with this notion that this is about calling the world Hyboria. Dude, read the post. :roll:
Kintire seems to have grasped the concept of what I'm saying and so has Rabindranath(though he refuses to let himself accept it's feasibility :? ).
Luca, there are actually quite a few, dark haired and blue eyed Irish people. I myself am one(although I am fair skinned and burn in the sun).One theory is that one of the proto celtuc grouping who settled here were of Hispanic origin.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Supp4, you seem to have become obsessed with this notion that this is about calling the world Hyboria. Dude, read the post. :roll:
Kintire seems to have grasped the concept of what I'm saying and so has Rabindranath(though he refuses to let himself accept it's feasibility :? ).
Luca, there are actually quite a few, dark haired and blue eyed Irish people. I myself am one(although I am fair skinned and burn in the sun).One theory is that one of the proto celtuc grouping who settled here were of Hispanic origin.

I agree with your central point.

Mmm, sloppy research? I'm not so sure. So you have to call the place something, because 'the Hyborian Age of the Planet Earth' is a little cumbersome. With a lack of a primary source, I reckon 'Hyboria' is a good solution. We're talking about casual cinema goers here, guys, and, as much as anyone involved in the film may want it to accurately reflect the writing or not, it's a commercial venture first and foremost.

Really, 'Hyborian Age', 'Hyboria', 'The Hyborian Kingdoms'? It's a bit of a non-issue. I'm a little more concerned where the samurai guys are supposed to be from, actually.

 

[rabindranath72]

Kintire seems to have grasped the concept of what I'm saying and so has Rabindranath(though he refuses to let himself accept it's feasibility :? ).

Oh I totally get what you suggest; I just happen to think that if it was plausible, besides being feasible (yes, it's definitely feasible) Howard would have used it. That's all.

 

[LucaCherstich]

Luca, there are actually quite a few, dark haired and blue eyed Irish people. I myself am one(although I am fair skinned and burn in the sun).One theory is that one of the proto celtuc grouping who settled here were of Hispanic origin.

Whatever reality was, no Celt ever was a Conan as envisaged by REH.
Well, this means, in any case, that there is still no need of a more celtic-like actor than Jason Momoa.
We are speaking of pseudo-fanta cultures, not of real stuff.
Furthermore, if you really read REH, who really does not wasted too much time on Cimmerians, the only celtic elements he gives about Conan are his name and the fact that the descendants of Cimmerians will become celts (essay on the Hyborian Age).
Other than that, there are no clear Celtic elements in his character.
To me, Jason Momoa is a very Conan-like actor in terms of how REH visualized Conan, certainly more than Arnie.
The problem is if that good, REH-orthodox look will be used in a good way or not...but we will see.

 

[tarkhan bey]

So Rabindranath, now that I have got you hooked on feasibility, it's time to wheel out the plausibility big guns..... :lol:
I believe that had not Bob left this mortal coil that it is plausible that at some stage he may have used the term 'Hyboria'. :shock:
Why? Just look at the other major group of the Hyborian Age. 'The Hyrkanians', a group of peoples, petty kingdoms/city states and tribal groupings sharing similar culture and existing in an area (not a Kingdom,not a continent) referred to as.......'Hyrkania'.

And as if that's not enough, the Aesir and Vanir, collectively known as the Nordheimr dwell in Nordheim. Need I go on?
It's not enough to completely discount something that you think Bob would never have said(or portrayed in a certain light) simply because he hadn't up to that certain point. We can never prove either way that he would or wouldn't have used or said certain things. VD and Darkstorm are making a career out of plausible and feasible things that they can't check out with the man himself. And we love the stuff they come up with because it is 'both' feasible and plausible (and where we aren't sure, we suspend disbelief and just go along for the hell of it).
As my final offer, I would like to point out that even the purist Howard canon sometimes clashes(Tamar/Tarantia anyone?)and that he clearly invented the evil and highly important Empire of Acheron after he had written the Hyborian age essay.
Pheww, if that doesn't convince you.........
. :roll: :lol:

 

[tarkhan bey]

I'm completely with you on this Luca. I think Jason Momoa looks the part apart from his big 'Whitesnake-Heavy Metal' hairdo. He's is certainly far closer to what I had envisaged CtB to look like that big Arnie was.
I also agree that the whole Celtic thing is a bit lazy. From what we do know of Cimmerians in general, CtB was the exception. They sound much more like dour Scots Lowland covenanters to me. God fearing and teetotal. :lol:

 

[rabindranath72]

As my final offer, I would like to point out that even the purist Howard canon sometimes clashes(Tamar/Tarantia anyone?)and that he clearly invented the evil and highly important Empire of Acheron after he had written the Hyborian age essay.
Pheww, if that doesn't convince you.........
. :roll: :lol:

:lol: sorry mate I refuse your offer.
Regarding Hyrkanians and Nordheimer...
For the former, Hyrkania is mentioned in the preamble to The Phoenix on the Sword and he spoke about "Hyrkanian Kingdom of Turan" (in Black Colossus) and "Hyrkanians" (op. cit., Tower of the Elephant, the Essay etc.) So we have both geographical, political and cultural references.
For Nordheimer, he also mentions Nordheim as a place at least in the essay.
If there are already similar examples where he used Hyrkania and Nordheim, why then he never used "Hyboria," I might ask? (just to counter your argument.)
Anyway, if all it boils down to is "taste" then let's just say I don't like the name "Hyboria" :wink:

 

[tarkhan bey]

Rabindranath, sorry it's taken a little while to get round to this topic again.

I would counter your counter( :? ) by saying that the very examples you cite are the reasons why it is highly plausible. He used cultural, geographical and political references for those other two races. My argument is simply that, on the balance of probabilities, he would 'eventually' have written similarly about the Hyborians and Hyboria.

Can't ever be proven, one way or another....

 

[rabindranath72]

Rabindranath, sorry it's taken a little while to get round to this topic again.

I would counter your counter( :? ) by saying that the very examples you cite are the reasons why it is highly plausible. He used cultural, geographical and political references for those other two races. My argument is simply that, on the balance of probabilities, he would 'eventually' have written similarly about the Hyborians and Hyboria.

Can't ever be proven, one way or another....

Definitely he might have written about it. But at face value, considering how profusely he wrote about the others, and how profusely he referred to an Hyborian "age," and never to Hyboria, I prefer to consider the latter non-canonical. And in addition, I don't like the word at all.

 

[Supplement Four]

I think that CPI is encouraging the use of "Hyboria". They've got the term trademarked, and if you look on the Conan.com site, you'll see a "Hyboria" logo in the upper right hand corner.

Maybe that's why Mongoose used the term on some of their books in spite of some author disagreement.

We've got "Hyboria's Finest", "Ruins of Hyboria", and "Catacombs of Hyboria", but we've also got the "Player's Guide to the Hyborian Age", "Bestiary of the Hyborian Age", and "Adventures in the Hyborian Age."