[CONAN] Battlefield Shift

I'm not sure I like to figures staying in the same five foot square during a battle. Yes, the combat round is abstract, but combatant position is not. Those guys should be all over the place, swinging, dodging, punching, circling, feinting, side-stepping, etc.

At the same time, I don't want to add a rule that bogs combat down.

Has anyone of you ever come across a rule that incorporates the melee dance in an easy, manageable way?
 
Supplement Four said:
I'm not sure I like to figures staying in the same five foot square during a battle. Yes, the combat round is abstract, but combatant position is not. Those guys should be all over the place, swinging, dodging, punching, circling, feinting, side-stepping, etc.

At the same time, I don't want to add a rule that bogs combat down.

Has anyone of you ever come across a rule that incorporates the melee dance in an easy, manageable way?


Yes, but it's a drastic one.

Get rid of Attacks of Opportunity.

If you do this, you don't need to worry about where, precisely, everyone is. You can even play without a map, just giving a rough voiceover of what everyone sees.
 
Mach5RR said:
If you do this, you don't need to worry about where, precisely, everyone is. You can even play without a map, just giving a rough voiceover of what everyone sees.


But...we like the map! My group prefers it. We've been using a map since the 1E AD&D days. Although I don't mind playing that way, my players balk at no map and no visual reference to the battlefield. They want to know exactly where everybody is, where all the obstacles are, etc, etc.

I remember when 2E AD&D came out. My players turned their noses at that edition's emphasis on free-style, GM described action scenes.

Hell, even when I run chases, though I'll describe the terrain and chase conditions, we'll keep track of distance between chase participants with a Range Band grid.
 
Supplement Four said:
Mach5RR said:
If you do this, you don't need to worry about where, precisely, everyone is. You can even play without a map, just giving a rough voiceover of what everyone sees.


But...we like the map! My group prefers it. We've been using a map since the 1E AD&D days. Although I don't mind playing that way, my players balk at no map and no visual reference to the battlefield. They want to know exactly where everybody is, where all the obstacles are, etc, etc.

I remember when 2E AD&D came out. My players turned their noses at that edition's emphasis on free-style, GM described action scenes.

Hell, even when I run chases, though I'll describe the terrain and chase conditions, we'll keep track of distance between chase participants with a Range Band grid.


Well, I did say CAN as opposed to have to. Yeah, the map is a seductively evil tool, but I always took to heart what Feng Shui The RPG taught me: The map is not your friend.

The problem with what your wanting is that D20 (and in this case, the Conan version of it as well) does not reward players for moving about. It rewards them for staying put. With certain exceptions (say, a charge) most things reward a player for moving only 5' in a round, because full round actions are normally more powerful than standard actions. With full round actions, players get more attacks (via two-weapon style, or just having a BAB of +6 or greater). Moving greater than 5' reduces your attacks, and opens you up to extra attacks from enemies.

Hmmm, now you have me thinking of AOO and the problems I have (actually with threatened squares). One of the problems I have is that my PCs will always ignore the grunts and go straight for the bad guy. Picture evil sorcerer doing evil things behind mass of bodyguard troops. The troops are mooks, meant to slow down the heroes and harass them. Except they ignore them. Run right through their ranks, suffering the occasional hit (except the soldier, who's parry is so disgusting it's not even funny) to whale on the sorcerer and quickly put him down. But it never seemed realistic to me that people could just run ziq-zag through a battle formation, bypassing the main forces. Maybe adding a difficulty 10 tumble check to move through a threatened square at 1/2 speed and a difficulty 20 to move full speed (a la lower versions of tumble to avoid AOO). Failure means you're stopped cold and can move no further.
 
Mach5RR said:
Yeah, the map is a seductively evil tool, but I always took to heart what Feng Shui The RPG taught me: The map is not your friend.

Oooo. :shock: Tell me more. I'm interested. Why isn't the map my friend? What's the Feng Shui RPG take?



The problem with what your wanting is that D20 (and in this case, the Conan version of it as well) does not reward players for moving about. It rewards them for staying put. With certain exceptions (say, a charge) most things reward a player for moving only 5' in a round, because full round actions are normally more powerful than standard actions. With full round actions, players get more attacks (via two-weapon style, or just having a BAB of +6 or greater). Moving greater than 5' reduces your attacks, and opens you up to extra attacks from enemies.

Yup. So true.
 
Feng Shui: Action Movie Roleplaying said:
THE MAP IS NOT YOUR FRIEND
Traditionally, roleplaying has been fixated on maps. This goes back to the earliest roleplaying games, which were fantasy games in which plot development was confined to clearing out room after room of monsters who lived like apartment dwellers in underground complexes. Many people still enjoy this style of play and we don’t want to knock them for it. It does enforce a certain mind set which can bog down a Feng Shui game, though. Specifically, the problem is using two-dimensional maps as the main way of visualizing the action being described in a scene.

If you haul out a map at the beginning of a fight scene and lay it on the table, you’re causing your players to stop focusing on the action scene in their heads and instead directing them to a dead, lifeless piece of paper; now they’re like a bunch of football players planning a play on a chalkboard instead of a bunch of football players running like crazy and tackling like mad. It may be extremely useful to you th have a floor plan among your notes, so you can judge where all of the combatants are. Just don’t show it to the players! And don’t treat it as gospel: a map should be, like any of your rough notes in preparation for an adventure, subject to revision as you go along.

Revealing your map locks you into a precise conception of the area in which the characters are fighting. If you just describe the place with words instead of plunking that map down, you can keep your options open. In Feng Shui, you want to be able to decide on the spur of the moment that there just happen to be awnings hanging over the walkway between buildings, or there is indeed a ledge big enough for that hoodlum to jump off of.

Sometimes you’re going to have to give in and show your players some kind of floor plan or diagram to help them visualize where they are. Never show the a nice, neat map from one of our adventure books. Or a nice neat map of your own creation, for that matter. Instead, whip up a rough sketch that conveys the bare minimum amount of information. That way, if you decide in the midst of a fight you need a spiral staircase complete with banister in the middle of that ballroom, you can add one just by sketching as you go. The messier and more incomplete the map, the more room there is to fill in the blanks.

An alternative to maps are color pictures from magazines. Travel or architectural magazines often have excellent photos which you can use as the basis of your set design. You can show these to your players to help visualize where their characters are, and they will stimulate the imaginative process instead of hampering it.

The beauty of the "no map" that your players might not have realized is they get to influence whats there too! One of the neat things about Feng Shui is, you start getting penalties for doing the same action (called "stunt") over and over. So you're forced to mix it up and use the battlefield and all of the things on it. So if your fighting in an alley, your players can just throw out things they might see in an alley and snatch them up.

But you can also borrow tips and tricks for using things like this with a map. Personally I think its borderline nuts to play any D20 variant (with AOO rules) without a map, but don't let the map take the fun out of your game.
 
Man, now I'm trying to picture Conan with Feng Shui rules. It's just that FS is so ridiculously over the top (being a mash-up of almost every Hong Kong Action Movie ever made) that I have a hard time imagining the seriousness that companies a Conan game. Where does Conan fit in a game, where Ninja Interior Decorators are a viable threat?
 
Mach5RR said:
Hmmm, now you have me thinking of AOO and the problems I have (actually with threatened squares). One of the problems I have is that my PCs will always ignore the grunts and go straight for the bad guy. Picture evil sorcerer doing evil things behind mass of bodyguard troops. The troops are mooks, meant to slow down the heroes and harass them. Except they ignore them. Run right through their ranks, suffering the occasional hit (except the soldier, who's parry is so disgusting it's not even funny) to whale on the sorcerer and quickly put him down. But it never seemed realistic to me that people could just run ziq-zag through a battle formation, bypassing the main forces. Maybe adding a difficulty 10 tumble check to move through a threatened square at 1/2 speed and a difficulty 20 to move full speed (a la lower versions of tumble to avoid AOO). Failure means you're stopped cold and can move no further.
To steal something from D&D 4th Ed Fighters: If you are struck by an Attack of Opportunity because of moving through someone's threatened square, you are stopped cold and can move no further.
 
Back
Top