Conan 2nd Edition - quality issues

[The King]

That's the main problem of our hobby, pal. Gaming shops are slowly disappearing, replaced by internet retailers. We wanted to get our games without moving our fat asses from the computer chair, we were greedy enough to buy on the web rather that at our local retailer just to save a few bucks, and some would go as far as downloading illegally their books. Now, we are complaining about quality issues. Man, we got what we deserve...

Internet retailers can afford much more competitive price (e.g. amazon). As to the quality issue, it shouldn't be a problem because 95% of the books produced are in good condition (not every publisher tries to be also a printer).
Anyway, with amazon you also can return the book (and the shipping fees are also reimbursed).

 

[aethelwulf22]

That's the main problem of our hobby, pal. Gaming shops are slowly disappearing, replaced by internet retailers. We wanted to get our games without moving our fat asses from the computer chair, we were greedy enough to buy on the web rather that at our local retailer just to save a few bucks, and some would go as far as downloading illegally their books. Now, we are complaining about quality issues. Man, we got what we deserve...

I know what you mean...I would much rather go to a shop and see the book in question before buying it but these days there are so few gaming shops (here in the UK anyway) that you just can't get a lot of RPGs without ordering online. Having said that the best online gaming stores in the UK also have a physical shop somewhere in the UK and are small independents as opposed to Amazon or the like.

However, I don't see how the above has any relevance when it comes to quality. There is no excuse for a poor quality product in a competitive market. Pinnacle who do Savage Worlds or Exile Game Studio who do Hollow Earth Expedition are just two examples of companies smaller than Mongoose who have come out with (and won awards for) superior quality products.

 

[The King]

As a matter of fact, it is difficult to work overnight as a printer and I think the book quality has much to do with this. This is a brand new employment for Mongoose and I guess they are still trying to figure out how to produce excellent books. I think they just need time to learn how to perform in this field.

 

[aethelwulf22]

As a matter of fact, it is difficult to work overnight as a printer and I think the book quality has much to do with this. This is a brand new employment for Mongoose and I guess they are still trying to figure out how to produce excellent books. I think they just need time to learn how to perform in this field.

I know you guys are loyal fans of Mongoose and as I said earlier I don't like to post negative stuff (especially on Xmas Eve) but there is no excuse for selling poor quality stuff.

Mongoose is (I'm sure inadvertently) making money from selling products that are inferior quality and/or damaged but this in the long run is harming Mongoose as a business. I'm sure that they are receiving complaints from both customers and retailers re the quality of their books but still they continue to get sent out. The books that are damaged or warped should be picked up at the quality control stage and destroyed.

As I said before my copy came direct from Mongoose after they assured us on these forums that the printing problems were sorted...so where is the quality control and since when is their printing problem sorted?

Don't get me wrong...I love what's in the books...I really want to continue buying Conan and look forward to Traveller but I don't want to buy something only to find when I receive it that it's in a poor state. I also don't want to see less demand for Mongoose products because of the quality issues...the more demand the more likely they are to continue producing books that I want to buy...but please sort out this quality issue!

 

[The King]

... there is no excuse for selling poor quality stuff.

I am not especially loyal to Mongoose and often had (have) bickering with them sometimes. I just try to be neutral there, being a demanding customer (and in this way your claim is totally right) but I also try to understand their point of view as well.
In this matter, I don't know what is their politics. They invested in a printer to be less dependant on several factors but printing is a whole profession and I don't know if they employed a specialist (it doesn't seem so).
The fact is that they should have still outsourced the printing process until they could perform well enough with their material at hand.

But it wasn't the case because they decided so and we now have to face with B/W books and a less than satisfactory binding process, among other things.
I am not happy with that (though I still didn't buy anything from the new printer yet) but there is nothing we can do, if only demanding for better quality. But as long they don't outsource the printing process, we'll have to wait until they gather enough experience in this field before we can be pleased with the books they publish (and print). It all depends on the ability to learn and progress.

Someone there (I think it's Herve) says in his signature that "patience is for coward". May be but if you want to have top-notch Conan material, we are bound to wait (though we are lucky that Vincent Darlage and Thulsa are working hard to make up for this.

 

[Hervé]

The King wrote:

Someone there (I think it's Herve) says in his signature that "patience is for coward".

Yep... that's me. It's an old joke from a L5R card (a Crab berserker, of course...What else?)

May be but if you want to have top-notch Conan material, we are bound to wait (though we are lucky that Vincent Darlage and Thulsa are working hard to make up for this.

Bound to wait for what? A "new" Road of Kings? A "new" Skelos? A "new" Player's Guide? A "new" Bestiary? it seems to me that 2008 will be a year of updated reprints of old material for the 2nd Edition (that is more an Atlantean 1.5 than a real 2nd ed.). Of course there will be new stuff (or so they say) like the Trial of Blood campaign. Now, that's worth the waiting!

In the meantime, we have Vincent and Thulsa that do more for the game than anyone else...

 

[The King]

...
Bound to wait for what?.

For full colour books and the usual quality we expect from Mongoose, that is until they know everything about printing process.

A "new" Road of Kings? A "new" Skelos? A "new" Player's Guide? A "new" Bestiary? it seems to me that 2008 will be a year of updated reprints of old material for the 2nd Edition (that is more an Atlantean 1.5 than a real 2nd ed.). Of course there will be new stuff (or so they say) like the Trial of Blood campaign. Now, that's worth the waiting!

You are talking about old stuff. It is usual to reprint core books as new edition appears. But it isn't only reprint, there are also a lot of new material.

If you don't want to appear to buy reprint, you may still sell your previous book on ebay.

 

[arderkrag]

Just got 2nd ed for Christmas, and am having some of the binding issues. The cover seems ok, though. How long did everyone's replacement copies take to arrive?

 

[heffe2001]

Looks like my previous post was deleted, but it takes about a week once they actually ship it. I'm currently waiting on msprange to reply to my mail I sent on the 18th, and again today about what they can do to get me a copy that's worth keeping. Thus-far, I've gotten the 2 initial copies I bought (both terribly bound, warped covers, spots, etc), and 3 replacements (the first was just about as badly bound as the first ones, the 2nd came in with the back split open in the packaging, the 3rd came in with a warp in the covers & pages, sort of s-shaped. The last was bound well enough, but just plain looks terrible. I've tried to press it flat, but it's just too badly warped.)

If I hadn't gone through the route of trying to get Mongoose to replace them, I would most definitely have returned them to Amazon, but I'm now well past the 30 days that you have to do it. At this point, I just want 2 decent copies that I can actually use, without worrying about it falling apart, and that will close without bowing.

I also don't expect this message to be posted for long, especially since the last was deleted...

 

[arderkrag]

Wow...Then I must have lucked out...only one page in mine is even close to coming out and the cover is fine.

 

[Dpetroc]

Just got 2nd ed for Christmas, and am having some of the binding issues. The cover seems ok, though. How long did everyone's replacement copies take to arrive?

I was told I was in the queue for replacement since November 9th. Matt followed up after I inquired and told me my replacement was a 'priority' on Dec 21st....

 

[arderkrag]

Wow...I've been wondering why the forums have been relatively quiet and why no one has emailed me back about writing freelance adventures...that explains a lot. I imagine the mongooses are scurrying (as I understand mongooses are wont to do) to find solutions.

 

[aethelwulf22]

Yeah...I'm still waiting for a reply to my request for a replacement.

I think that an official response to this ongoing quality problem would perhaps help...and would at least give fans some idea of when this problem is likely to be sorted out. They have said on these boards that there is no longer a problem...so after the on-going issues with the quality of RttRoK what is their current position? Do they recognise they still have a problem? What are they doing about the problem? How long do they foresee this to be a problem? Are they going to make sure the bad copies are picked up at the quality control stage rather than sold?

 

[Hervé]

I sent my request of replacement on Nov. 14th and I 'm still waiting. I had a mail from Mongoose telling me there would be some delay. It's Xmas time and I guess Mongoose shippin' guys must have had a lot of work, so I can understand the delay.

In the meantime, the old copy is still usable for play, although the cover and most pages have fallen apart. I won't ask for a replacement of Return to RoK, I think I can live with the bended cover... I'm sure Mongoose will learn from their errors and that the printing quality will improve as they master their facility. I guess that editing books and printing them are quite different jobs so we musn't be too harsh (although I can be quite a whiner myself...)

 

[windman]

I got my replacement and the binding is much better than the first.

I applaud mongoose for their excellent customer service.

However, even properly bound, it is such a thick and unwieldy book, I still would have been happier with two thinner books, a PHB/DMG type option.

I loved the ease with which I could find the relevent info in my old soft cover pocket edition. For the core rules, I could care less about artwork and color.
Affordability and usability make for the best basic tools for the game. I wonder if a two volume, player and GM specific, pocket book 2nd edition set would be well received.

 

[arderkrag]

I wonder if a two volume, player and GM specific, pocket book 2nd edition set would be well received.

I've been thinking this, too. I would happily buy both.

 

[judge morgan]

Received my replacement on Saturday - I echo the kudos to the MP customer service attitude about this issue...

 

[Clovenhoof]

However, even properly bound, it is such a thick and unwieldy book, I still would have been happier with two thinner books, a PHB/DMG type option.

Unwieldy? You're not s'posed to whack it 'round anyone's ears, mate! ^^

 

[Tathlum]

A couple of levels of Barbarian should give you the traits to wield it properly.