Computer/Cyber/Bio Technology in the new Traveller setting?

[Golan2072]

Also this would mean that a third world sweatshop that manufactures the Imperial equivalent of iPhones would be TL15, even though none of the locals can afford anything more advanced than a bicycle. I can see where you're coming from, but it just doesn't feel right, and in any case is contrary to a fair bit of OTU canon.

The other way around doesn't feel right as well. If TL means either absolute availability (i.e. nothing of higher TL is found there except for rare occasions) or gear availability to PCs, then with extensive trade - which is OTU has plenty of - even the poorest worlds won't be TL 0-2 but 3-5 in most cases, and usually more. There are many industrial goods which would be profitable to sell to a poor planet even if only 5% - or even less - of its population could afford them. And if 5% - even 1% - of the population could have these items, so could well-off Travellers. Think about this - assuming you were a western visitor with dollars (the equivalent of Travellers with money) visiting the capital city or a major port city (the equivalent of a startown) in almost any third-world country, how difficult would it be to buy a car, a cellphone or even an AK-47?

 

[SSWarlock]

<snip>Think about this - assuming you were a western visitor with dollars (the equivalent of Travellers with money) visiting the capital city or a major port city (the equivalent of a startown) in almost any third-world country, how difficult would it be to buy a car, a cellphone or even an AK-47?

But what if said visitor wants to buy the latest high-end laptop AND get local 24-hours tech support? Or a 2008 Ferrari?

Ain't gonna happen without some serious Streetwise rolls, if then.

 

[rust]

But what if said visitor wants to buy the latest high-end laptop AND get local 24-hours tech support? Or a 2008 Ferrari?

I think it is even more complex than this.

My setting is a TL 10 colony on a water world. The colonists produce
some TL 10 goods, for example diving equipment, and import some
TL 11 goods, for example electronics.

A visiting traveler could easily buy some TL 10 equipment, but not any
TL 10 electronics, because they are neither produced nor imported.
He could buy a TL 10 hydrofoil with TL 11 sensors, but he could not buy
an ATV or any kind of ground car, no matter what tech level.

In the end, if one wants to know what is available on a planet, one has
to develop that planet in some detail.

 

[gerzel]

In the end, I always take tech level as a rule-of-thumb rather than a hard law for a world.

For instance an agricultural world where natives are unable to manufacture anything over TL 6 may have extensive high TL biotechnology available at low costs through inter-system trade.

 

[Infojunky]

Im just wondering if anyone can fill me in on the details of how the new books will be covering tech?

Will the computers still be 10 ton monstrosities that require a degree to program?

Have you ever seen a server farm? Think traveller computer, also note that space rated CPUs and related hardware is much beefier than that error prone box sitting on your desktop. So I don't have a problem with a 10 displacement ton enclosure containing multiple racks coolers, desks, chairs, mini-fridge stocked with Ultra-caffeinated GoJuice(tm) brand sodas, manned part time by someone who's last job was in his parent's basement.

Will Cyber and bio tech still be essentailly unavialable to PCs?

Look at augmentation in the TMB......

 

[Golan2072]

<snip>Think about this - assuming you were a western visitor with dollars (the equivalent of Travellers with money) visiting the capital city or a major port city (the equivalent of a startown) in almost any third-world country, how difficult would it be to buy a car, a cellphone or even an AK-47?

But what if said visitor wants to buy the latest high-end laptop AND get local 24-hours tech support? Or a 2008 Ferrari?

Ain't gonna happen without some serious Streetwise rolls, if then.

I agree, but my point was that extensive interstellar trade mitigates TL differences, not eliminates them. In other words, if TL represents what a Traveller could buy locally (or absolute tech availability for that matter), the west would be TL8 while most third-world countries would be TL5-7; but how many places would be TL0-3 or even TL4? Or, on an interstellar scale, if the Imperium is TL15, most backwaters would be TL5-8 (or even 5-12), but you'll probably get far, far less worlds of TL4 or less than the world generation rules suggest.

 

[Infojunky]

Ok, some one answer me, What does this discussion about what or what not TL is get us? How is it useful for play for the larger community? Circular debate is a whole other hobby.

 

[Klaus Kipling]

Certain aspects of what we call Tech Level are knowledge based and others relate to technical capacity.

Medical treatment at TL2 in an interstellar trade environment will not be bloodlettings and leeches. Basic hygiene is easy to introduce, the latest anatomy and pathological knowledge can be found in books. So TL2 medicine could easily resemble TL4 or 5 (or even higher) in most common circumstances.

The Romans could build steam engines - it was just that they were far less efficient and reliable than slaves. Roman concrete, on the other hand, is still superior to our modern stuff.

Given knowledge of the science, simple electric motors/generators could be built at TL2, facilitating a telegraph system and possibly even incandescent lighting.

Hand gliders are another example. It has been shown by actually building it (using renaissance techniques) that Leonardo's flying machine actually worked. Given that the medieval/renaissance artisans were much better than us at using their techniques, it shows this was not a technological impossibility but more to do with religious dogma and primitive economic systems. The knowledge of better/advanced systems allows stuff to be in use before 'we' managed it in our isolation.

There are credible reports of tribesmen in the Pashtun mountains hand-tooling AK47s from scratch out of scrap, arguably with a TL of no higher than 4 at the most.

The example of Somalia shows that cheap and portable high tech infrastructure can be easily grafted on to a low tech society.

Tech Level, as someone has pointed out, is only a very crude measure with literally countless interpretations. All are probably valid in one place or another.

I would expect in a mature space-faring community that TL10 or 11 kit would be ubiquitous in and around busy-ish starports (C +), with only price and relative age (ie not always brand-new) being affected by the native TL.

 

[SSWarlock]

The Romans also were quite advanced in ophthalmic surgery techiques, including cataract removal, while ancient Hindus commonly practiced rhinoplasty (rebuilding the nose). The Etruscans were known for producing partial dentures of bridgework good enough to wear while eating.

And constant-flush toilets were available to the citizens of Ephesus while under Roman rule 'way back in 80BC (been to the ruins, sat on 'em) while the temples of the Egyptian city of Alexandria had automatically opening doors designed by the architect Heron nearly two thousand years ago.

"Low tech" truly does not equate to "primitive".

For an exceptional overview of ancient "high tech", look up the book "Ancient Inventions" by Peter James and Nick Thorpe. Printed by Ballantine Books (ISBN 0-345-40102-6) in 1995, it should be still available at local large book stores or at least orderable. Price is about $23US.