Combat!

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Rather depends on how you imagine battle dress, and gauss rifles. Anybody in battle dress still has a significant edge, and only top of the range small arms, i.e. gauss rifles and laser rifles are likely to be effective.

But I expect a certain degree of tactical sense in a skirmish, and, frankly, a high level of risk. Basically a MTU thing

Egil

 

[justacaveman]

The benefits of TL-13 Battle Dress vs. TL-11 Combat Armour don't justify the almost 10 times increase in cost.

Battle Dress does provide a +4 Dex bonus and 4 additional points of armour (these are the only real combat benefits in most circumstances), but costs 1,800,000 credits more and special training to use. TL-12 Improved Combat Armour reduces the armour difference by 2 points at a cost of 100,000 credits.

I believe Battle Dress deserves to be treated as more than a slightly improved version of Combat Armour. On the other hand, PC's shouldn't be running into opponents wearing Battle Dress on a regular basis. Fighting someone wearing Battle Dress should be a significant increase in the danger of the encounter rather than a minor increase of the threat level. It is way too easy for the PC's to defeat someone using Battle Dress. I WANT the PC's to be afraid of the stuff, not look at it as an easy money making opportunity. I want them to see this metal monster coming at them and deciding that since they don't have any heavy weapons, they should retreat instead of fighting it out (and probably winning).

 

[apoc527]

I think Battle Dress is more than slightly improved Combat Armor! It gives huge stat bonuses and allows use of plasma and fusion guns. Those increased stats lead to increased accuracy as well. Battle Dress at TL14 is +2 Armor higher as well.

IMO, Battle Dress in Traveller terms isn't a huge suit of powered armor. It's relatively light weight by comparison to many hulking suits of armor. It's more like Iron Man armor (form fitting and highly agile) than the battlesuits of Starship Troopers or the bodytanks of Alternity.

If one wanted to create body tanks (a term I love), I think you'd need to have a copy of Power Armor, whenever it comes out, and I think that the Protection values would need to be in the 20-30 range.

Regardless, a gauss rifle firing "DSAP" ammo is the single most advanced armor piercing weapon available to the Imperium that still qualifies as a small arm. I have no trouble with it being able to hurt battle dress, which is probably why true DSAP ammo for it is probably rare and highly controlled in the Imperium!

Edit: Ironically, CSC, and it's complicated rules, are what brought me back to MGT.

 

[justacaveman]

Battle Dress is not required to fire plasma and fusion guns (It does make it easier). A sufficiently strong character wearing Combat Armour can fire hi-energy weapons without penalty. My house rules don't make Battle Dress immune to rifles and pistols, they just reduce the benefits from using armour-piercing ammo in such weapons.

In order to help justify the high cost of Battle Dress I have made about half of the armour options on pages 152-153 of the CSC standard equipment.

I don't believe it is an extreme view to make it just a little harder to take out Battle Dress and armoured vehicles with handguns.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Battle Dress is not required to fire plasma and fusion guns (It does make it easier). A sufficiently strong character wearing Combat Armour can fire hi-energy weapons without penalty.

Well, maybe no penalty save for the incidental radiation damage... I think I'd rather have the backwash protection of the Battle Dress myself! :wink:

 

[AndrewW]

Battle Dress is not required to fire plasma and fusion guns (It does make it easier). A sufficiently strong character wearing Combat Armour can fire hi-energy weapons without penalty.

Well, maybe no penalty save for the incidental radiation damage... I think I'd rather have the backwash protection of the Battle Dress myself! :wink:

Doesn't take Battle Dress to protect from radiation though.

 

[justacaveman]

Combat Armour provides radiation protection.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Combat Armour provides radiation protection.

Combat Armour protects as a normal Vacc Suit. A Vacc suit provides 50 points of radiation protection. The average radiation released per shot from an FGMP is 140 points to everyone in the location.

So after one shot in your Combat Armour you'll start feeling sick, take a -1 penalty and 1d6 burn damage, with another 1d6 damage for each shot thereafter (my interpretation). The cumulative damage will start permanently reducing the Endurance of the firer and his buddies after three average shots, i.e. one round of firing if the entire party is armed with them.

Thus using FGMPs in Combat Armour is akin to suicide. I could be reading it wrong, but that's what it appears to state using equipment and rules in the Core Rulebook.

Of course you could wear a HEV to protect against the radiation, but the combat worthiness of HEVs is somewhat less than desirable.

 

[justacaveman]

On page 88 of the Core Rulebook it says Combat Armour protects from vacuum in the same way as a Vacc Suit, and just below it says that Battle Dress is a powered form of Combat Armour.

On page 142 of the Core Rulebook in the Radiation Exposure table it says that Vacc Suits provide 50 points of protection, and a Hazard Suit or Battle Armour provide 200 points.

Combat Armour and Battle Dress have always provided the same level of NBC protection.

Combat Armour is basically an improved Hostile Environment Vacc Suit.

All I'm saying is that Battle Dress needs a little bit more to justify the almost 10 times increase in price. And the physical enhancements don't quite justify the price increase.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

On page 88 of the Core Rulebook it says Combat Armour protects from vacuum in the same way as a Vacc Suit, and just below it says that Battle Dress is a powered form of Combat Armour.

Well my difficulty here comes from the fact that if you take away the inference that Combat Armour grants a similar form of protection as a Vacc Suit, then there is no mention that it provides any protection against radiation.

For a Vacc Suit it is specifically mentioned, for a HEV it is mentioned, and for Battle Dress it states it works like HEV suits. For Combat Armour - nothing.

Just for fun I looked up Combat Armour in the CSC to see if they added anything to clarify matters. Again there was no mention of radiation protection, just a descriptive sentence which says 'Combat Armour is a complete vacc suit-like array of metal and synthetic armour'.

The next section concerning Powered Armour explains that those rigs halve radiation damage. Then the Battle Dress section reaffirms that BD armours protect like HEVs.

So I cannot find anything in the Core Rulebook or the CSC which unequivocally states that Combat Armour provides any radiation protection at all. If they wanted Combat Armour to possess radiation protection then why was it not specified, as it was for the other armours?

On page 142 of the Core Rulebook in the Radiation Exposure table it says that Vacc Suits provide 50 points of protection, and a Hazard Suit or Battle Armour provide 200 points.

Ahhh, I've always interpreted 'Battle Armour' in that sentence to be talking about armoured vehicles such as tanks. I reached my impression due to Battle Dress being specifically equated to HEVs earlier in the rules, and that the following line talks about starship armour. Of course that's just my interpretation since the categories are not clarified. 'Battle Armour' could have been a botched attempt to write Battle Dress, who knows? Then again a Hazard Suit isn't clearly defined as a HEV suit either, so its all rather murky!

Combat Armour and Battle Dress have always provided the same level of NBC protection.

Maybe in other versions of Traveller, but I was specifically talking about the Mongoose rules, which does not seem to bear this out.

Combat Armour is basically an improved Hostile Environment Vacc Suit.

According to the RAW its is Battle Dress which is an improved HEV, not Combat Armour.

All I'm saying is that Battle Dress needs a little bit more to justify the almost 10 times increase in price. And the physical enhancements don't quite justify the price increase.

To me the RAW (or at least the way I read them) does justify the cost, if Battle Dress is the only military armour which can shield its wearer from the proximity and firing of fusion weapons. In MTU anyway!

 

[Cryton]

My house rules are simply all the sidebars. 8)

 

[justacaveman]

If Battle Dress is powered Combat Armour, then Combat Armour is unpowered Battle Dress.

 

[justacaveman]

None of this makes Battle Dress that much more difficult to destroy with weapons. There are plenty of low tech firearms that can do the job. And even if the guy in the suit has an FGMP, it doesn't,t do him any good if he's dead. A dead guy with a Fusion Gun is no more dangerous than a dead guy with a BB gun. But, he was a lot more expensive to equip.