Combat Issues

[Deleriad]

A character takes damage to his leg, dropping him to -2. He makes an opposed Resilience test and passes. Later he takes 3 more damage in the same location, dropping him to -5. What else happens? He hasn't lost twice his starting Hit Points by the way.

at -2 Hit Points he suffers a serious wound. He is 'stunned' for 1d3 CAs and must make an opposed Resilience test. He succeeds so can continue using the location.

at -5 Hit Points he has suffered another serious wound to his leg. He is stunned for 1d3 CAs (again( and must make an opposed resilience test. If he succeeds he can carry on using the arm.

Basically, once a location is at 0 HPs any further injury is a serious wound each time it happens. Once the location has taken twice HP damage, every injury is a major wound.

Did you intend using arm then leg as an example?

No I inadvertently wrote arm rather than leg.

at -5 Hit Points he has suffered another serious wound to his leg. He is stunned for 1d3 CAs (again) and must make an opposed resilience test. If he succeeds he can carry on using the location.

 

[Grimolde]

A: has Strike Rank 12 and 3 CAs
B: has Strike Rank 11 and 3 CAs

Strike Rank 12
A: attacks for 1 CA
B: defends for 1 CA and A is overextended and cannot attack on his next Strike Rank.

B: attacks for 2 CA
A: defends for 2 CA

A: can't attack even though he has a CA left. He can defend.

-------------------------------------------------

I just thought of something, what if an attacker had to (for whatever reason) parry for the next '2' CAs, would he still lose his attack option on the 3rd CA?

It says he loses his next Strike Rank, but when does this restriction end?

 

[Dan True]

A: has Strike Rank 12 and 3 CAs
B: has Strike Rank 11 and 3 CAs

Strike Rank 12
A: attacks for 1 CA
B: defends for 1 CA and A is overextended and cannot attack on his next Strike Rank.

B: attacks for 2 CA
A: defends for 2 CA

A: can't attack even though he has a CA left. He can defend.

-------------------------------------------------

I just thought of something, what if an attacker had to (for whatever reason) parry for the next '2' CAs, would he still lose his attack option on the 3rd CA?

If you mean that he chooses the "Parry" action on his next SR, then no, he wouldn't loose his attack option.
If you mean that he has to parry 2 times (because C also attacks him on his 2nd SR), before it becomes his own turn - then yes, A cannot attack on his 3rd SR (even if he had more than 3 CAs from the beginning).

For clarity, an overtenxted opponent has to spend one SR doing something other than attack, to regain his balance, before he can attack again".

 

[Grimolde]

For clarity, an overtenxted opponent has to spend one SR doing something other than attack, to regain his balance, before he can attack again".

Thanks for clarifying

 

[DamonJynx]

I'm beginning to think that MRQ2 is a little too involved for me, and the group. I'm getting the feeling that it's too much to wrap my head around. It's just one little thing too many to understand. It may even be easy, but I think I just failed a POW roll.

Thanks anyway

I can see what you're saying Grimolde, but am I right in thinking you still haven't played a session yet? If so, I'd recommend that before deciding if its too involved or not, play a couple of games. You'll find that the rules in real-time play work a lot more effectively than you interpret them simply through reading.

Its certainly an involved game and I can understand you feeling a little overwhelmed, but give it a shot in real play and then see how you feel.

I'll vouch for that. I think you maybe overthinking things Grimolde. We're playing an Elric campaign and that's even a little more...complex, involved? The rules are more challenging in some respect. The magic is quite different and unique. We are all ex D&D players so the whole D100 thing is strange and excitingly new. But after you've played a session or 2 it all starts to make sense. There are only a few things to remember really:

1. Roll as high as you can within you skill band. If you roll a crit that's a bonus.
2. Think about how you use your CA's, the management of these is crucial to survivability in campaigns with a combat focus. In all our combats thus far, those that run out of CA's first lose.
3. CM's are your friend, sometimes it's better to NOT go for the killing stroke!
4. Have fun! Don't stress about the rules too much. If something happens on the night you're not sure of, make your ruling, keep the game moving and sort it out later. The folks on the forum - as you can plainly see - are more than willing to help clarify things as are the main authors, Loz and Mongoose Pete.

 

[Grimolde]

I'm beginning to think that MRQ2 is a little too involved for me, and the group. I'm getting the feeling that it's too much to wrap my head around. It's just one little thing too many to understand. It may even be easy, but I think I just failed a POW roll.

Thanks anyway

I can see what you're saying Grimolde, but am I right in thinking you still haven't played a session yet? If so, I'd recommend that before deciding if its too involved or not, play a couple of games. You'll find that the rules in real-time play work a lot more effectively than you interpret them simply through reading.

Its certainly an involved game and I can understand you feeling a little overwhelmed, but give it a shot in real play and then see how you feel.

I'll vouch for that. I think you maybe overthinking things Grimolde. We're playing an Elric campaign and that's even a little more...complex, involved? The rules are more challenging in some respect. The magic is quite different and unique. We are all ex D&D players so the whole D100 thing is strange and excitingly new. But after you've played a session or 2 it all starts to make sense. There are only a few things to remember really:

1. Roll as high as you can within you skill band. If you roll a crit that's a bonus.
2. Think about how you use your CA's, the management of these is crucial to survivability in campaigns with a combat focus. In all our combats thus far, those that run out of CA's first lose.
3. CM's are your friend, sometimes it's better to NOT go for the killing stroke!
4. Have fun! Don't stress about the rules too much. If something happens on the night you're not sure of, make your ruling, keep the game moving and sort it out later. The folks on the forum - as you can plainly see - are more than willing to help clarify things as are the main authors, Loz and Mongoose Pete.

All good points. I've resolved all the issues I had with rules, I'm just putting the final touches to my low magic low fantasy Britannia setting now.

Momentum is definitely gathering

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

Over-extend stops the character from attacking on his next active SR. The character might not have planned to attack in which case, nothing changes. Grimolde has it exactly right.

A - SR 18, 3 CAs: B - SR 15, 3 CAs.

SR 18. A attacks, B parries. B gains an DoS and chooses Over extended. Both have 2 CAs left.

SR 12. B attacks. A parries, No doS. Both have 1 CA left.

Not wishing to complicate things but - supposing the SR12 exchange, rather than being as above, generates a defensive CM - would you allow A to choose "riposte" allowing A an "immediate" attack? It's not (yet) A's next SR, so on a very literal reading of overextend it's not prohibited, however, I would be inclined to disallow it.

 

[Deleriad]

Over-extend stops the character from attacking on his next active SR. The character might not have planned to attack in which case, nothing changes. Grimolde has it exactly right.

A - SR 18, 3 CAs: B - SR 15, 3 CAs.

SR 18. A attacks, B parries. B gains an DoS and chooses Over extended. Both have 2 CAs left.

SR 12. B attacks. A parries, No doS. Both have 1 CA left.

Not wishing to complicate things but - supposing the SR12 exchange, rather than being as above, generates a defensive CM - would you allow A to choose "riposte" allowing A an "immediate" attack? It's not (yet) A's next SR, so on a very literal reading of overextend it's not prohibited, however, I would be inclined to disallow it.

I would disallow it as well.

 

[Grimolde]

What would you say are the differences between a defender being overextended, and being the victim of a riposte?

If overextended, you cannot attack on your next SR so you end up parrying (for argument's sake) on your next CA

If riposted, you cannot attack on your next CA so you end up parrying (again for argument's sake) on your next CA

I guess the difference is that you have to forego your next 'attack' opportunity when overxtended, whereas with a riposet you just can't attack on your next CA?

 

[Grimolde]

An entry on the Close Combat Fumble Table page 87 states you ‘forfeit your next 1d3 CA, and all defence actions are at -20%’. How can you forfeit an action and still be penalised -20%?

 

[Grimolde]

Combat rolls are not 'opposed' tests right?

One thing I've experienced with combat, is that two opponents can sometimes swing at one another and nothing happens with one successfully attacking and the other successfully parrying.

 

[Loz]

Combat rolls are not 'opposed' tests right?

One thing I've experienced with combat, is that two opponents can sometimes swing at one another and nothing happens with one successfully attacking and the other successfully parrying.

Yes, this is true. Depending on the weapons in use, a successful parry can fully absorb any damage from a successful attack, so there's no CM for either party and no damage to the defender.

 

[PhilHibbs]

One thing I've experienced with combat, is that two opponents can sometimes swing at one another and nothing happens with one successfully attacking and the other successfully parrying.

That can happen but it's statistically unlikely to happen for too long. There's a thread a couple of months back where I run through the numbers for two 100% combatants. Here's the meat:

There are three possibilities that result in a hit - hit versus miss or fumble, which is 0.85*0.05=4.25%; crit versus miss, which is 0.1*0.05=.5% chance; and crit versus success, which is 0.1*0.85=8.5%. Sum those up, there's the 13.25% chance. I didn't even add in the fail-vs-fumble chances, but that's only a .08% chance per exchange. (numbers are per the OP's example of 99% skills)

Actually, it's better than that even. I am only calculating the chance of the attacker getting a win. There's an equal chance that the defender can get a defensive CM by beating the attacker's level of success. So the chance of a CM being generated from an exchange is twice the figure quoted, 26.5%. The chance of a combat round passing with no CM awarded to either party is only 29%, and the chance that this will continue for two full combat rounds is 8.5%. So the suggestion that the boring status quo will go on for ever is nonsense, someone will probably get a CM in the first round.

The main reason for this is that with 91-100% skill, each has a 10% chance of a crit. So success-vs-success won't go on for very long.

 

[PhilHibbs]

An entry on the Close Combat Fumble Table page 87 states you ‘forfeit your next 1d3 CA, and all defence actions are at -20%’. How can you forfeit an action and still be penalised -20%?

I think the forfeit is of the CAs where you choose what to do on your SR. You just can't choose to take an elective action, you can only react. I think you lose the CAs, so if you have 5 CAs and you fumble on your first, then you can only get one more parry that round. If you choose not to parry at all, then you can wait until everyone else has had three CAs and then use your last one to attack or cast a spell or such like.

 

[Grimolde]

The main reason for this is that with 91-100% skill, each has a 10% chance of a crit. So success-vs-success won't go on for very long.

Very true, and when I look back on it, the back and forth didn't last that long when I think about it.

 

[Grimolde]

An entry on the Close Combat Fumble Table page 87 states you ‘forfeit your next 1d3 CA, and all defence actions are at -20%’. How can you forfeit an action and still be penalised -20%?

I think the forfeit is of the CAs where you choose what to do on your SR. You just can't choose to take an elective action, you can only react. I think you lose the CAs, so if you have 5 CAs and you fumble on your first, then you can only get one more parry that round. If you choose not to parry at all, then you can wait until everyone else has had three CAs and then use your last one to attack or cast a spell or such like.

One combatant was knocked prone, and forfeited 3 CAs, so I was wondering whether or not he could indeed get up and defend at the same time. I ruled he could, but at a -20%, that it took one combat action to get up, and another to parry. Not sure if this is correct, but it seemed to make sense.

He's not going to just sit there and be pummelled and the rules do state a -20% on any defensive actions. I guess I'm saying he couldn't attack and could only parry at -20%

EDIT: I think completely losing the CAs is a bit extreme but an offcial answer would be cool

 

[DamonJynx]

One combatant was knocked prone, and forfeited 3 CAs, so I was wondering whether or not he could indeed get up and defend at the same time. I ruled he could, but at a -20%, that it took one combat action to get up, and another to parry. Not sure if this is correct, but it seemed to make sense.

He's not going to just sit there and be pummelled and the rules do state a -20% on any defensive actions. I guess I'm saying he couldn't attack and could only parry at -20%

EDIT: I think completely losing the CAs is a bit extreme but an offcial answer would be cool

I would say that you "lose" the next 1d3 CA. You have fallen over and are prone. Until you change that situation after 1d3 CA you are at -20%.

Say you have 3 CA. In round 1 on your 1st CA you trip. Let's assume you roll crap and get a result of 3. You are prone and cannot take any action until your 2nd CA comes up in round 2. If you remain prone you are at -20%. I could be wrong, but I think that's RAW.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

I would say that you "lose" the next 1d3 CA. You have fallen over and are prone. Until you change that situation after 1d3 CA you are at -20%.

Say you have 3 CA. In round 1 on your 1st CA you trip. Let's assume you roll crap and get a result of 3. You are prone and cannot take any action until your 2nd CA comes up in round 2. If you remain prone you are at -20%. I could be wrong, but I think that's RAW.

But RAW all actions while prone are at -20%, not just defensive ones.

I think the "official" effect of the fumble could do with some clarification..

 

[Deleriad]

The stumble fumble does look a bit confused.

Trip and fall prone. Forfeit next 1D3 Combat Actions. All defensive actions at a –20% penalty.

I *think* what is meant to happen is this.

1) Forfeit next 1D3 CAs. Example you normally have 3 CAs and have 1 CA left this turn. You roll 2 on 1D3. You lose your 1 last CA this turn and next turn will only have 2 CAs.*

2) You are prone so you are at -20% to skills. This is probably meant to be reminder text rather than an additional penalty.

It's actually a very devastating fumble.

*There is an alternative interpretation which might be as follows. Say the fumbling character rolls a 2. For the character's next two TURNS (i.e. when their SR comes along) the character must "do nothing." The character can still react by defending but is at -20%.

Without a clarification of intent from the designers I don't see any principled way of deciding so it's probably a case of personal preference.

 

[DamonJynx]

*There is an alternative interpretation which might be as follows. Say the fumbling character rolls a 2. For the character's next two TURNS (i.e. when their SR comes along) the character must "do nothing." The character can still react by defending but is at -20%.

Without a clarification of intent from the designers I don't see any principled way of deciding so it's probably a case of personal preference.

That sounds like a better way to go and is most likely the intent (after all it does say -20% penalty to defence). You can attempt to stop an enemy gaining auto-CM's by parrying at -20%, but can't otherwise, attack, cast, move or stand from prone until after your 1D3 "let me sort myself out after that nasty fall" CA penalty is up.