Combat Armour/Battle Dress and Fair Fights...

[GypsyComet]

Firing on Port facilities is good for a Piracy charge, and you really don't want that on your name. Imperials will switch to "shoot first and question the whiff of smoke later", the bank you have (had) a mortgage with will assume that you've skipped and not wait to send skip-tracers after you, and life in general gets more difficult until you make the mistake of jumping into a system with bigger fish.

 

[Infojunky]

Ok for the record in the many years I have played Traveller as a player the heaviest weapon I have ever chosen has been a Snub-machinegun. Why, because it gives my characters choice to escalate force as the situation warrants.

Metagame as a GM I run agents/merchants games, while I have had some players want to arm for bear, I have always managed to convince them that restraint is preferable to blinding amounts of fire power.... Well they have have that in the form of a armed starship.

In my games I use an analogy of the classic Western and classic science fiction in that weapons commonly used need to travel with the character as the do normal business. Which translates to pistols, knives and other small weapons. Or in GM terms enforce encumbrance rules, have you NPCs comment on the inappropriate display of firepower.

This is one area I have always thought was kinda thin in Traveller, the smaller weapons. And the melee rules. Kinda funny is that this is where a lot of games live.

 

[Maedhros]

I'm going to start from the assumption that both you and your players enjoy running combats. If you want to avoid fights altogether, it's simple to set up problems that can't be resolved by shooting people. Your options are roughly this.

We enjoy combat well enough, as well as all the other stuff. My current problem is that one player is really pushing for firepower supremacy uber alles, and the others are following his lead. Not, in itself, a problem. However, I'm not very experienced with the Traveller rules set and thus I don't have an intuitive grasp of just how much opposition I can throw at the PCs and not either a) have it fold immediately, resulting in (yawn) another cakewalk for the PCs or b) TPK OMG WTF?!!??!!

1. Have their adventures take them to high Law worlds where they can't easily cart around weapons and armor off of their ship and must rely on what they can acquire outside the starport.

Natch.

2. If shooting people is where their skills lie, then have Patrons who hire them to utilize those skills against matching opposition.

They all stated flat-out that they wanted to explore uncharted space...so their naval commissions were re-activated and they were dispatched on an intelligence mission. I'm somewhat amused that when directly ordered by the Fleet Admiral to maintain cover, the mission commander immediately commandeered a number of Navy-issue combat armor suits. Nothing says "low profile" like Navy-issue combat armor. :?

3. Make the lead-in to combat the exciting part. Sure your players can win any fight they get into, but the trick is finding the person they need to shoot and pinning them down long enough to shoot. If a drifter they're looking to rumble sees a bunch of guys with gauss rifles and combat armor coming his way, he's going to rapidly run in the other direction. Chase scene!

Good advice. At present, they've jumped into a system with an asteroid belt being mined by an old, crotchety, paranoid, abrasive belter and his extended brood. The PCs could probably beat them all, but at what cost?

4. Don't let them get away with shooting cops. That never ends well.

The cop shooting was just me deciding to have a fight for the sake of learning the rules. I told them this up front: "We're going to have a fight now, to learn the rules." In general, it would definitely be a bad idea.

My concerns are not so much "what kind of game situations can I use to challenge my PCs" but more "when I present a combat challenge, what kind of rules-of-thumb can I use to provide a fun fight without excessive TPK possibility?"

 

[kristof65]

My concerns are not so much "what kind of game situations can I use to challenge my PCs" but more "when I present a combat challenge, what kind of rules-of-thumb can I use to provide a fun fight without excessive TPK possibility?"

Ok, that puts a different spin on things.

I'm not really any more familiar with the MgT rules than you are, but you can even things out somewhat by having their opponents use dirty tricks against them. Even if the opponents are way undergunned, they might just be smarter, or know the environment better. Use those things to your advantage:

- Set up crossfires so the PCs will have to expose themselves in order to take an objective. Their combat armor may be able to handle it, but eventually you'll figure out what can penetrate and what can't, just like their opponents will.

- Traps. The PCs run into a building to clear out the opposition, only to find that the opposition has decided they can't win in a fair fight, so they bring down the building on them. Chances are the PCs will survive, but the other guys got away, and they have to dig themselves out. Likewise, combat armor is heavier than a normal man, so well built pit traps can be effective, too.

- guerilla techniqes, IE, shoot and scoot. Sure, the opponents may not be able to outgun or even injure the PCs, but it will sure get annoying when they continually have to stop what they're doing to try and find the guy who's peppering them with small arms fire - AGAIN.

- ambushes. Even TL1 natives can be quite annoying if they're ambushing the PCs in a spot that the PCs can't fight back easily, no matter how powerful their weapons. After all, combat armor only holds out so long against 1 kg rocks being thrown off a 100 meter cliff.


The point of these type of encounters is two-fold - one is in-game story stuff that makes things interesting even when the PCs outgun their opposition, but the other reason is so that you can learn just what's effective, and what isn't.

Take the shoot & scoot scenario. Say the PCs are trekking by foot across some jungle terrain back to their ship after their air/raft was damaged and forced down, possibly by enemy small arms fire. The enemy sets up several small ambushes involving snipers who fire off a few shots, then scurry away into the underbrush/hidden cave system/whatever. The first few attacks don't do anything but ricochet off their armour, causing the players to all laugh at the ineffectiveness of their enemy.

But any time one of the PCs has to take a leak, or take off their helmet to get some air - bam, there's that small arms fire. At sunset, when they're trying to sip their field rations through straws as to not take off their helmets and get shot, it's going to be pretty damn annoying when the sniper starts taking out their rations. "Ah man, my craberry sauce is all over the front of my armor now - this is going to take some scrubbing to get off!"

Keep this up for a few of days while they get back to their ship, and even the simplest, most non-effective weapon against them is going to be pretty darn annoying - not "Ho, hum, yawn" - especially if they finally get the guy(s) after putting up with this for days. "Finally got that b-tard! Hoo Yah!"

While they're enduring all that, you can, if you like and it makes sense, be trying different weapons to learn their effectiveness.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Several things spring to mind.

You could start cutting back on the adventures or missions they get as word gets around that they are trigger happy. Some senior megacorp exec may hire a team for a little covert work but who wants to start a megacorp war by leaving a pile of bodies just to snatch some tech files.

In terms of cutting back on the weapons they use try putting them in situations where there is likely to be a lot of colateral, lots of people around them, chemicals that go boom on the other side of those light plastic walls just behind the bad guy etc.

For matching them you are faced with the problem that common security/goons are not likely to be wearing much armour or using heavy weapons. They are likely to be able to cut through any normal rent a cop squad with ease. So let them.

Each time they do it add a little to thier killer rep, local news stories about mercs gone wild spread and grow. When they start arriving on worlds and download the news to see stories and recordings of the renegade merc squad that has exactly the same armour and weapons as them murdering some poor helpless factory workers (well they worked in the factory for the mob boss) they should be concerned.

New paint jobs help for a while but when it reaches the point that the bad guys see them coming and call the local swat team (let the players know this happens) then its new character time.

Ultimately high tech worlds with law levels have scary levels of monitoring, your team may come up with something smart like putting the weapons in shipping cases but when they are filmed going into a building by the front door and not leaving whereas the killer mercs are recording leaving the building by the back door most law enforcement can smell the fish.

The 3I may not care about local stuff but once you start red flagging the systems where they are shoot on sight they may get the idea.

Or something I did many years ago when I had too many players, I ran two games in the same area and time line so each group got news of the others activities. One group was eventualy wiped out when the other group turned bounty hunter for the sizeable reward on the pirates the first group became.

When the rep of your group gets realy bad try a one off game, allow the group to create bounty hunters with really heavy weapons and spend a gaming seasion hunting down a terrorist group with a few clues towards the end of the game that the terrorists are, in fact, thier other characters.

 

[nitestar4]

The modern real world equivalent of a big policeman in full riot bear vs a random homeless guy. Homeless guy gets brass knuckles, policeman gets a nice club.
I think that's the problem you're running into. You're basically talking about a military group who occasionally (from the sounds of it) are going after some cops. Unless there's something drastic, of course the cop is going to lose unless he calls in support.

Adam

 

[dayriff]

Everybody reading the thread, pay attention! Maedhros has explained that this is a mechancial question about how to structure opponents so that fights are exciting without killing off all the PCs. This is not about making the PCs avoid fights or punishing them for fighting.

My concerns are not so much "what kind of game situations can I use to challenge my PCs" but more "when I present a combat challenge, what kind of rules-of-thumb can I use to provide a fun fight without excessive TPK possibility?"

Oh, okay. MGT combat is a death spiral system, because as your hitpoints are reduced from stats you suffer negatives to using your combat skills. Anything that actually penetrates armor and does damage to the PCs is going to worry them, even if it's not very much damage. Your ideal combat probably ought to end with at least one PC injured and maybe one PC having been knocked down from lack of End.

I'd suggest using larger numbers of enemies with weapons that can beat the armor of the PCs... but only if they roll pretty well. Liberal use of cover and bringing in unusual elements should work well too.

Remember that you can always have the enemy retreat, especially if they have taken casualties. If you get to the point where you're no longer sure who will win the fight, then the NPC enemies might be just as unconfident.

 

[kristof65]

Everybody reading the thread, pay attention! Maedhros has explained that this is a mechancial question about how to structure opponents so that fights are exciting without killing off all the PCs. This is not about making the PCs avoid fights or punishing them for fighting.

I'm aware of that. However, as I stated, since I'm not any more familiar with the system than he is, I gave examples of things he could do to keep even underpowered opponents from being boring.

IMHO, it's often more fun to have interesting combat regardless of respective power levels than it is to always have a "fair fight".

 

[Pyromancer]

First thing you learn in tactic school: Avoid fair fights at all cost. The other guys could win!

 

[blackblood_uk]

Well i find the players generally even things up themselves.

Case 1 cowardly player hides in engineering during space combat, engineering takes a hit, its a crew member and he loses a leg, next planet was a low TL one he had to make do with a wooden leg :lol:

Case 2 party of 4 attacked by a lepoard 1 character is being mauled pretty badly on the floor, 2 players laugh 4th player draws laser pistol to shoot the leopard misses and hits the player being attacked , he very nearly died :lol:

Myself i tend to have the players hunted by the corporations / governments they upset. Latest case they offed nobels son without a seconds thought, only latter when i trickled out some news stories did they realise the stroppy guy on the yacht was the nobels son and then started to get worried by the offers of huge sums of money for the perpetrators heads :twisted:

I prefer players to ovecome enemies with brains rather than uber amour and FGMP's

 

[Alexander Cecil]

I had my players recently exploring an abandoned asteroid-hull mining ship in their most recent adventure. The PCs needed to hack into the ship's computer at various locations to restore functionality to the vessel, but any unsuccessful hack attempt activates the remaining security drones in the area.

Unsure of how combat against robots would run, I made a point of scaling the encounters in my notes. The PCs made such short work of two combat drones that I quickly upped the anti for the next encounter, using 30 malfunctioning repair drones. The PCs survived this, with only one seriously wounded. Once they healed up back on their ship, I decided to go for broke and see how well they could survive against 10 combat drones. To the system's credit, the combat rules allowed for a really exciting running firefight, complete with smoke grenades, shooting from cover, and cover fire. The PCs only survived by taking several rushed actions to hack into the ship's computer again, gain access to the captain's account, and command the drones to be deactivated.

Starting with a smaller encounter allowed me to scale the rest of the adventure based upon what I saw in the first combat. Having the ability to hack the computer and make problems with the drones allowed me some fudge factor in case I had totally misread their abilities.

 

[Kilgs]

APBs travel faster than PCs do in most cases.

Unless you live in the Imperium :twisted:

And, as to how scale combat, I've found that snipers are always an excellent idea. I mean, who says the players are the only ones to come up with the word "ambush"?

Another good idea is reinforcements. The longer combat goes, the more people show up... helps to scale the beginning the threats and then build up until things get nasty.

 

[GypsyComet]

APBs travel faster than PCs do in most cases.

Unless you live in the Imperium :twisted:

Not really. Once an APB hits the Xboat network it will spread like wildfire. It won't take long for it to already be wherever the PCs go.

 

[kristof65]

Not really. Once an APB hits the Xboat network it will spread like wildfire. It won't take long for it to already be wherever the PCs go.

I agree. However, will it mean anything to those receiving it?

Let's say that every world in the Imperium issues 1 APB per week, and cancels one every other week. Let's also say, that for the sake of argument, that an APB can spread to every world within the Imperium within a year, and that every world was 'reset' back to zero APBs on 001/1100.

With 11,000 worlds, by 001/1101, you would have 572,000 APBs issued and 286,000 cancelled - but not completely propogated througout the Imperium. By 001/1102, you're looking at most worlds having in excess of 500,000 thousand 'active' APBs in their database. As time goes on, it get's worse and worse.

My take is that, on average, each world out there will have somewhere between 2 and 5 million active APBs in their system. With that many in the systems, mistaken identities are going to be quite common, particularly on lower tech worlds. So for me, it isn't if the PCs are able to travel faster than the APB, but if they can talk their way out of things when they are caught. Because they will get caught.

 

[GypsyComet]

A lot of crimes are going to get filtered out of the "free floating APB" swarm due to distance and lack of extradition arrangements for what are planetary crimes.

On the other hand, Imperial crimes within about 20 parsecs are going to get flagged. This includes all forms of piracy.

Parking your repainted ship at some backwater 'D' port where you and the Portmaster play cards every Wednesday night is probably going to work for a while. Trying to stroll through customs on one of the high-tech powerhouses of the area, especially after letting your APB "age" for a bit, is going to be a mistake.

 

[kristof65]

There are a lot of factors, to be sure.

- how frequently given planet's send out warrants and for what types of crimes?

- whether or not those are crimes where the officer is reading the APB

- extradition hassles.

- distance

- time since it was issued.

And so forth.

With 11,000 worlds, my point was there will be a lot of them, and at some point, they will trip "naughty" PCs up. Even if each world only issues one a year, and they all "expire" after 20 years, that's a lot of them in the system. I've had friends pulled aside from routine traffic stops because their name matches some warrant from another state. In each case, it was merely the officer making sure. But had they said the wrong thing, or acted suspicious, they would have landed in big trouble, at least until it got sorted out - more so if they had actually be the ones named.

PCs who are prepared for this possibility are probably going to be able to walk away from a valid warrant with a good story. PCs who panic, or say the wrong things are going to be in a world of hurt.

 

[GypsyComet]

I've had friends pulled aside from routine traffic stops because their name matches some warrant from another state. In each case, it was merely the officer making sure. But had they said the wrong thing, or acted suspicious, they would have landed in big trouble, at least until it got sorted out - more so if they had actually be the ones named.

I know a couple that hybridized their last names into one for precisely this reason.

 

[The Shaman]

My concerns are not so much "what kind of game situations can I use to challenge my PCs" but more "when I present a combat challenge, what kind of rules-of-thumb can I use to provide a fun fight without excessive TPK possibility?"

Since Traveller doesn't have an easily scalable system for comparing opponents (like levels v. hit dice or EL v. CR), I look at three things: how tough are the opponents? how often can they hit? how much damage will they do when they hit?

I want to challenge my players, so I want the opponents to be tough enough to survive a routine hit, so I choose physical stats and armor that will give them a chance to survive at least one hit from the weapons the adventurers are using on an average damage roll. This might mean stats of 777___ and cloth armor or it might mean stats of AAA___ and combat armor. This works for all but the most powerful energy weapons in my experience.

As far as damage dealt goes, I look at the armor and stats of the adventurers and figure out how often I want the opponents to get a hit. If I want them to hit on 10+, then I'll choose their weapons and skills accordingly; if I want them to hit on 8+, then the skills and/or the weapons will increase.

Now I have a rough idea of how well the opponents will do against the adventurers. I also now have some idea who the opponents are, based on their stats, skills, and equipment: are they local security or Imperial agents? colonists or pirates? With this I can structure how the encounter presents itself to the adventurers.

With respect to the reclusive belter and his kin, two thoughts: breaching charges and mining lasers, and familiarity with the ground.

Good luck.

 

[Maedhros]

[snip good advice]
With respect to the reclusive belter and his kin, two thoughts: breaching charges and mining lasers, and familiarity with the ground.

Good luck.

Thanks. That's the kind of advice I was looking for.

 

[Galadrion]

Thanks. That's the kind of advice I was looking for.

Other possibilities (which will probably be more shocking since the players are less likely to have thought of them):

(1) Breaching charges and mining lasers are far from the only mining equipment which can be adapted/McGuyvered. Any sort of mining vehicle - or drone! - can be adapted for many purposes, including becoming an impromptu missile. And if it's technologically advanced enough to have an on-board computer - as most asteroid mining equipment will be - it can probably be programmed to make its last run autonomously. Makes "suicide" runs much easier to justify...

(2) Have the miner run a bluff. The players catch a broadcast (or a "poorly-directed" tightbeam - that they "just happen" to be in position to intercept) message calling in the miner's associates - the ones he made up to frighten off raiders. (A truly canny - or paranoid - rock rat will have a preprogrammed responder somewhere out there, triggered by the message, which relays back a message saying help is inbound... and due fairly quickly.)

(3) Who says the rock rat is alone out there? The belters may be a fairly supportive community. Even if he doesn't call for help, if another belter notices what's going on, there could easily be a response... and jungle drums may well spread the players' rep as raiders faster than official channels do. Fringe cultures frequently do pack together against outsiders: look at the way carnies - even carnies from rival outfits - will rally 'round to a "Hey Rube!" I'd expect people who live and work in an environment as hostile as hard vacuum would be even more likely to help first and figure the cost later.

But generally, the earlier advice (concerning the automated/robotic defenses) is pretty good for scaling opposition: start with something deliberately eyeballed to be a light challenge, and then use that as a benchmark to scale up. If the first challenge is too weak... oh, well. It was a throwaway anyway, and now you've got some good intelligence. If it's tougher than you expected... hey, you started things off with a bang! And if it unexpectedly starts heading for TPK territory... well, that's what gamemaster fiat and hidden dice rolls are for. Hopefully, you're better at gauging challenges than that.