Collateral damage

[Spartan159]

Running a solo game involving a ships crew vs some corsairs across a street with light traffic after dark, parked cars along the street and light traffic passing. what are the chances of hitting passing motorists if a shot misses? And do fuel tanks on parked cars really explode when hit or is that just Hollywood? :twisted:

 

[mancerbear]

I would establish the odds of a car being hit from the top of my head, say a 2 in six chance. Every time a shot is missed, roll a d6 and if you get 2 or below, a car is hit.

Exploding cars? Up to you. Do you want flashy cinema style action or real life action? Also, what fuel are the cars using. unless they use a volatile fuel there will be no explosion. Batteries? They might burst into flame like a pierced smart phone battery. Microfusion? just run In any case, I'd again establish a chance that something vital is hit and not have every shot cause an explosion.

Hope that helped somewhat.

 

[Spartan159]

I would establish the odds of a car being hit from the top of my head, say a 2 in six chance. Every time a shot is missed, roll a d6 and if you get 2 or below, a car is hit.

Exploding cars? Up to you. Do you want flashy cinema style action or real life action? Also, what fuel are the cars using. unless they use a volatile fuel there will be no explosion. Batteries? They might burst into flame like a pierced smart phone battery. Microfusion? just run In any case, I'd again establish a chance that something vital is hit and not have every shot cause an explosion.

Hope that helped somewhat.

Thanks mancerbear. TL 8 world, using internal combustion engines, although now that I think about it some could be battery or hybrid. I was gonna use vehicle charts but was stopped by the need for a 6+ effect to get a crit. I think I'll just roll 2D and if I get a 12 it is a critical. Kind of going semi-flashy, I don't want every hit to explode but if the die rolls it, there it is.

 

[fusor]

what are the chances of hitting passing motorists if a shot misses?

Pick a number. Though as soon as it's obvious that there's a firefight going on, the traffic is most likely going to stop going by. Also, someone's going to call in the SWAT teams and police helicopters really quickly if there's an open firefight going on.

And do fuel tanks on parked cars really explode when hit or is that just Hollywood? :twisted:

I'm pretty sure Mythbusters did a segment on that, and I think they found that for the most part they don't (unless hit by incendiary bullets). Though if you're firing a laser or a plasma rifle then that may be different

 

[Spartan159]

what are the chances of hitting passing motorists if a shot misses?

Pick a number. Though as soon as it's obvious that there's a firefight going on, the traffic is most likely going to stop going by. Also, someone's going to call in the SWAT teams and police helicopters really quickly if there's an open firefight going on.

And do fuel tanks on parked cars really explode when hit or is that just Hollywood? :twisted:

I'm pretty sure Mythbusters did a segment on that, and I think they found that for the most part they don't (unless hit by incendiary bullets). Though if you're firing a laser or a plasma rifle then that may be different

Thanks and good points, the law level is 0 but that does not mean there is not some kind of civil enforcement. Fight is in a more civilized section of startown. Bad guys have an ACR, boarding SMG, laser pistol and 2 laser carbines. no grenades but the boarding SMG does have flechette rounds... Heroes all have gauss pistols.

 

[fusor]

Thanks and good points, the law level is 0 but that does not mean there is not some kind of civil enforcement.

if the law level is 0 then the passing traffic is likely to stop, dive behind their cars, and pull out their own AK-47s and join in .

 

[allanimal]

I would make the chance of stray bullets hitting something significant based on whether the shots are aimed, single shots or rocking & rolling on full auto. When they pray and spray, stuff should get hit - there's a lot of lead (or coherent light or plasma or whatever) flying about!

 

[Reynard]

"Also, someone's going to call in the SWAT teams and police helicopters really quickly if there's an open firefight going on. "

Watch the news, firefights on the streets last seconds, maybe a few minutes. People and things get shot up, far too often innocent bystanders, and by the time law enforcement is informed and on the way, the participants that live are long gone. Bystanders in or near such a firefight are not trained and will be running, ducking or taking pictures/videos rather than thinking to call the cops.

If you want to fun with extra work, anything large in the line of fire and within range after a target is missed are attacked. Large targets such as stationary vehicles and buildings are auto hit. People are targeted but give a -3 DM as they are not specifically the target.

 

[phavoc]

Slug throwers have a possibility of puncturing a fuel tank or rupturing a fuel line, but there shouldn't be too much of an issue with slugs or gauss rounds causing a fuel fire.

Lasers, on the other hand, do have a high probability of causing a fire if they flash vaporize a puddle of fuel or hit a fuel tank. That's how they do damage after all.

The law level 0 doesn't mean everyone is chaoticly running around shooting up the town. You can bet the local police will have grav vehicles imported from off world and have heavier weapons than the average citizen. I wouldn't put it past the police to respond to a firefight with a g carrier (though not armed with a fusion gun).

Passing traffic would immediately halt when the bullets started flying, so there shouldn't be any sort of problem there.

 

[Condottiere]

Law level zero?

Car, armoured; likely armed.

I'd imagine it's like Kabul.

 

[AndrewW]

You can bet the local police will have grav vehicles imported from off world and have heavier weapons than the average citizen.

Not always, they are harder to maintain if the local TL isn't up to it. Could also be budgetary restrictions. There might be a few grav vehicles available but may not be sent out for every little thing.

 

[rust2]

The law level 0 doesn't mean everyone is chaoticly running around shooting up the town. You can bet the local police will have grav vehicles imported from off world and have heavier weapons than the average citizen. I wouldn't put it past the police to respond to a firefight with a g carrier (though not armed with a fusion gun).

I am not convinced that a law level 0 civilization would have a police force.

 

[fusor]

The law level 0 doesn't mean everyone is chaoticly running around shooting up the town. You can bet the local police will have grav vehicles imported from off world and have heavier weapons than the average citizen. I wouldn't put it past the police to respond to a firefight with a g carrier (though not armed with a fusion gun).

I am not convinced that a law level 0 civilization would have a police force.

Traveller law levels are oddly designed around how much weaponry you can own/carry around, though above law level A it switches to how much freedom of speech one has - I always put it down to the designers (who being American obviously have an American bias) thinking that those are the only legal issues that could ever possibly be of importance to anyone. But the point is that being allowed to carry any weapons could still mean that there are legal restrictions on other things.

Also, it could be interpreted to mean that there is a police force, but it's not particularly effective (i.e. it's understaffed, generally ignored, totally corrupt, etc).

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Victorian England would be about Law Level 0. Lack of heavy-handed bans does not mean lack of law or order.

You may perhaps carry weapons, but it is still likely illegal and antisocial to kill people. The police will be prepared for idiots, and will likely not have much in the way of limitations on their weaponry or their use.

In rural Sweden during moose hunting season about half the population is running around with rifles (and by an amazing coincidence most of them fires NATO-standard 7.62 mm ammunition). The murder rate is still close to zero.

Truly violent places like Afghanistan or Somalia are failed societies without functioning governments, Government level 0.

 

[phavoc]

You can bet the local police will have grav vehicles imported from off world and have heavier weapons than the average citizen.

Not always, they are harder to maintain if the local TL isn't up to it. Could also be budgetary restrictions. There might be a few grav vehicles available but may not be sent out for every little thing.

Ethiopia flys 787's. They can't build them and they can maintain them only with imported spare parts. But they have 15 and another 4 on order. Just because the local TL won't support something doesn't mean they won't have or use them extensively. It makes too much sense (economic and common) for worlds to import certain types of advanced gear and equipment, even if cost is 10-20% more.

The law level 0 doesn't mean everyone is chaoticly running around shooting up the town. You can bet the local police will have grav vehicles imported from off world and have heavier weapons than the average citizen. I wouldn't put it past the police to respond to a firefight with a g carrier (though not armed with a fusion gun).

I am not convinced that a law level 0 civilization would have a police force.

Why not? Just because the law level is zero doesn't mean that everyone is running around killing people. That's called anarchy, and anarchy and civilization don't play well together. Even lawless regions have their own code. It's usually the consequences that are affected by law. Say you had a city that was law level zero. To be a city it has to have a certain understanding by its citizens that buildings won't get torched, citizens killed and robbed just by walking out the door, etc.

 

[alex_greene]

I am not convinced that a law level 0 civilization would have a police force.

They do in the States.

 

[Reynard]

Checking the chart, we seem closer to Law Level 3. We just have a lot of people who would prefer their Law Level 0 rights.

 

[wbnc]

As far as I have been able to gather the odds of a stray round hitting anything that can be seriously damaged ...cars, homes, people, are fairly slim. there is a lot of empty space and a bullet is a small object the odds are that the bullet will encounter an empty wall, the pavement, or a patch of dirt a few miles away. busted windows and perforated siding is the most likely outcome. now if a crowd is in the line of fire...or within a very narrow band in front/behind the intended target then there will be an elevated chance of something that does not tolerate high velocity projectiles well is more likely.

if you want to simulate the chance of a stray round hitting a bystander, or their vehicle, I'd say the odds are about 1 in 100 if they are in the direct line of fire. every round fired in a burst would up that a bit. if they are within 5 meters of the target or the shooter another bump is in order.

one example I can think of from personal experience was an incident while i was working armed security. A fight broke out at a house next to my work site and as one party drove off they stopped and fired 15-20 rounds across the road toward the house. one round hit the barn behind the house. they missed me, the car next to me, a tractor, two trucks, the house itself, and five people in the line of fire...and they literally missed the broad side of a barn with all but one round.


As for law level Zero....

I tend to think that even a Law level that low would have some sort of constabulary, or at least a group of volunteers to handle extreme emergencies. Think of it as a town from an old western. No real legal system, but if someone starts shooting up the place a group of armed civvies might come crawling out of the woodwork since they have family and property that's in the line of fire.

even in the most lawless regions of the planet a village might have a group of guys who will pick up a weapon if people get too far out of line. And odds are they won't hesitate to use those weapons on an outsider who is firing off high-powered weaponry. if there is a local strongman, boss, or landowner, his guys may well have instructions to "handle" troublemakers.

 

[AndrewW]

Ethiopia flys 787's. They can't build them and they can maintain them only with imported spare parts. But they have 15 and another 4 on order. Just because the local TL won't support something doesn't mean they won't have or use them extensively. It makes too much sense (economic and common) for worlds to import certain types of advanced gear and equipment, even if cost is 10-20% more.

In some cases yes. But all being based on the same planet you don't have it taking weeks to get replacement parts or qualified personnel to service the item. And no, I didn't say they nobody would have them. Just not everyone would.

 

[alex_greene]

If there is autofire, assume between 60% to 90% of the rounds fired would miss and impact on surfaces such as walls, go through windows, smash through car windscreens and door panels, ricochet off harder surfaces such as stone and so on. So after the gunfight, you'd see a lot of bullet holes and pits, lots of glass fragments glittering all over the floor, maybe a fire hydrant geysering a fountain of water and something on fire.

And everywhere would just reek of burned black powder.