cloning technology, but not with clones

[MasterGwydion]

Random question.

Natural born human child.

6 years old.

Can his aging be accelerated using the Bio-Reaction Chamber?

If yes, can he be creche-trained?

 

[Sigtrygg]

In my game in some settings yes. Reminds me I need to update my biotech thread.
In Traveller with T5 rules I can't see why you couldn't stick a natural vs clone into the popsicle tank. Ethically I can see why not, but from a would you allow it in your game - yes.
I'd have to check the MgT take on this, but if you can do it to a clone then there is no reason it couldn't be done to a natural.

 

[MasterGwydion]

In my game in some settings yes. Reminds me I need to update my biotech thread.
In Traveller with T5 rules I can't see why you couldn't stick a natural vs clone into the popsicle tank. Ethically I can see why not, but from a would you allow it in your game - yes.
I'd have to check the MgT take on this, but if you can do it to a clone then there is no reason it couldn't be done to a natural.

I wasn't sure as there was a line in there about genetic modifications that need to be done in the first 6 months, but I am not sure if that means, first 6 months of life, first 6 months after conception, or first 6 months after being put in the tank.

 

[Geir]

Not sure the creche-training would work without "printing neurons" and there may be some (at least Third Imperium-wide) laws against sticking a kid into an artificial growth and indoctrination tank. Of course you could also stick an adult in there and get a full body makeover.

(See: consequences, unintended; fingers, 10 standard; ammunition, live)

 

[MasterGwydion]

Not sure the creche-training would work without "printing neurons" and there may be some (at least Third Imperium-wide) laws against sticking a kid into an artificial growth and indoctrination tank. Of course you could also stick an adult in there and get a full body makeover.

(See: consequences, unintended; fingers, 10 standard; ammunition, live)

Oh yeah. It's messy and it's evil, but it might make for an interesting Enemy for a party.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Also, how many laws are actually Imperium-wide other than the ban on slavery (which is basically ignored) and the restrictions on Nukes? Aren't the Imperium's High Laws, basically, whatever the Imperium wants them to mean in the moment?

 

[Arkathan]

Oh yeah. It's messy and it's evil, but it might make for an interesting Enemy for a party.

If it is a villain, then the rules don't matter. The villain can get most anything to work.
Like when I ported the techno-necro-virus from SWTOR (that base in the Tatooine Desert) onto a space station.
Just deny players (or the government) the opportunity to replicate the process.

 

[MasterGwydion]

If it is a villain, then the rules don't matter. The villain can get most anything to work.
Like when I ported the techno-necro-virus from SWTOR (that base in the Tatooine Desert) onto a space station.
Just deny players (or the government) the opportunity to replicate the process.

If I can't make it work by the rules, I usually won't do it. Not fair to My players.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I can't see anything in the Robots - Clones chapter that would prevent you carrying out forced growth on a natural. Lots of medical intervention, lots of time in the sheepdip.
An alternative way to force grow a natural would be with a variation of medical slow.

 

[Arkathan]

If I can't make it work by the rules, I usually won't do it. Not fair to My players.

Reproducibility under the rules is different from fairness.
If the players have the ability to research a weakness, exploit the weakness, or defeat the villain/minions via normal means, then the creation of the McGuffin is less important. Perhaps it is based on an Ancient artifact, which gets destroyed in defeating the Big Bad.
How many decent Star Trek episodes followed the rules of physics? As long as the players are challenged, AND have a good evening defeating the bad guy (or being the bad guy if you are into that) then all's fair - so long as you don't venture too far into handwavium.

 

[Alqualonde]

Oh yeah. It's messy and it's evil, but it might make for an interesting Enemy for a party.

My memory is a bit hazy, I'll need to do some reseach, but Terrans (during the Interstallar Wars) did some 'modifications' for their colonists. I vaguely remember a mention in GDP's second Alien Book (Solomani & Aslans).
They did some uplifting (Dolphins, apes, bears & maybe Orca if I don't confuse with Blue Planet). So I suppose they did some cloning too (with or without improvements). I would seems logical when faced with a "thousands of worlds empire".
Just a planetary assault on a major world like Nusku would cost a lot of lives. Why not send clones first.

 

[Sigtrygg]

In the original S3 Spinward Marches it mentions the Imperial Ministry of Colonisation bioengineering colonists to live on a water world.
"Nexine is an underpopulated water world currently being used by the Ministry of Conservation for reseeding efforts using biologically altered humans."

 

[ottarrus]

Random question.

Natural born human child.

6 years old.

Can his aging be accelerated using the Bio-Reaction Chamber?

If yes, can he be creche-trained?

I should think that by TL 12 or so, the social and psychological barriers to the creche model of child rearing will have been worked out. Yes, it's a frightening concept to TL 8 pre-contact Earth human brains, but the Vilani have been rearing successful children in what we would call 'alternate' family models [raising children in a clan and caste societal basis] for centuries in the OTU.
Add to this the alternate educational models... passive sleep learning, active 'guided dream state' learning, etc.
In Mongoose publications there are multiple societies wherein ALL citizens are cloned from a list of approved templates and creche-raised to fit their template and caste-role in society.
And we won't even get into Battletech's Clan 'trueborn' and 'freebirths'

 

[Condottiere]

I think that skill acquirement requires some form of muscle training, mental and/or physical.

Growth hormones aren't unknown.

Probably, the issue would be psychological adjustment.

 

[ottarrus]

I think that skill acquirement requires some form of muscle training, mental and/or physical.

Growth hormones aren't unknown.

Probably, the issue would be psychological adjustment.

A whole bunch of skills will require practice and exercise to develop muscle memory. Even MM commented on that with adchips in AotI and the Cyberpunk RPG rules commented that while you could skill chip Karate-4, if you tried a reverse crescent kick to the opponent's head without practicing the move several times first and doing some stretches and muscle building exercises you were far more likely to hurt yourself than your opponent, skill level or no skill level.
No speed learning should impart physical skills without physical exercise to back the whizz-bang sci-fi technology up. Physics and anatomy simply don't work that way.

 

[ottarrus]

Probably, the issue would be psychological adjustment.

I'm presuming that by TL 12 or so the social and psychological bugs of high-tech population increase methods will have been worked out.

 

[MasterGwydion]

A whole bunch of skills will require practice and exercise to develop muscle memory. Even MM commented on that with adchips in AotI and the Cyberpunk RPG rules commented that while you could skill chip Karate-4, if you tried a reverse crescent kick to the opponent's head without practicing the move several times first and doing some stretches and muscle building exercises you were far more likely to hurt yourself than your opponent, skill level or no skill level.
No speed learning should impart physical skills without physical exercise to back the whizz-bang sci-fi technology up. Physics and anatomy simply don't work that way.

Yeah, but if you are putting in the chip for Melee/4, then you also have the cybernetic implant with allows the chip to control your body, and perhaps the cybernetics that increase your stat by 1, fixing the problem entirely.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Resurrecting this thread with another weird thought.

Using cloning technology from the Robot Handbook, a low-end TL-15 clone has 1D3 + 11 for STR, DEC, END, and INT. So, basically 12s for 4 out of 6 major stats. This costs an average of 500 kCr for a baseline clone matured and trained for 7.5 years. After that, they are an adult and their improvement is by the normal sophont rules for character advancement.

So, my question is this, why does the very minimum clone average 12s, when a human with no medical care or Charted Space's best medical care still only averages 7s. TL-0 average is 7. TL-15 average is 7. Is no neonatal care ever being done? Has there been no geneering to remove Parkinsons or cancer or increase a stat? Is none of the medical technology in Charted Space for improving "natural" reproduction?

Seems to me that if the default with cloning is 12s on STR, DEX, END, and INT, then some increase should be able to occur in "natural" reproduction as well, although obviously not to the level increase provided by cloning.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Because the clone was based on those rare individuals with 12s in their core characteristics. You have 11,000 worlds and a population of trillions, finding someone to provide the blueprint for your clones is likely to be a trivial data base search, then all you need to do is persuade them to take part in the cloning program...

 

[Terry Mixon]

Resurrecting this thread with another weird thought.

Using cloning technology from the Robot Handbook, a low-end TL-15 clone has 1D3 + 11 for STR, DEC, END, and INT. So, basically 12s for 4 out of 6 major stats. This costs an average of 500 kCr for a baseline clone matured and trained for 7.5 years. After that, they are an adult and their improvement is by the normal sophont rules for character advancement.

So, my question is this, why does the very minimum clone average 12s, when a human with no medical care or Charted Space's best medical care still only averages 7s. TL-0 average is 7. TL-15 average is 7. Is no neonatal care ever being done? Has there been no geneering to remove Parkinsons or cancer or increase a stat? Is none of the medical technology in Charted Space for improving "natural" reproduction?

Seems to me that if the default with cloning is 12s on STR, DEX, END, and INT, then some increase should be able to occur in "natural" reproduction as well, although obviously not to the level increase provided by cloning.

Eugenics R Us?