CLE's vs Romulans

[LtCmdr]

Hi all,

We're playing a campaign and have had an influx of CLE's into the federation fleet, since then my Romulans have rarely been able to win a battle.

I'm finding I'm coming up against forces such as 4 CLE + New Jerset + Bismarck style fleets. On the surface looks interesting but agains the Romulans there is a double wammy of:
Massed drone attacks of 12 per turn against any single target
Unable to use plasma torps as even with volleys of 20+ they are all getting shot down

the cloak is of no benefit as if I'm close enough for a de-cloak maneuvre I'm already toast

Im looking for inspiration I've started making more use of the plasma bolt but I'm baraly able to kill 1 or 2 CLE's before the larger ships have reduced my fleet to the point I cannot win

Any thoughts on how Romulans counter the CLE's?

 

[Myrm]

A Single Sparrowhawk M mounts around 10 phasers and is an escort itself. That helps with the 12 Drones. It also mounts 8 dice of plasma in 5 torpedoes - trying to remember if Ds can be used defensively in ACTA or not - if they can then SPMs are even better to do the defensive legwork, if not then that plasma has to go somewhere, ideally to the opposition - denuding them of their defensive fire. If they go escort mad, you can do the same.

Bolts are a must for the heavy tubes, and the Ds fly out to counter enemy phaser fire. You want the variants that carry the most torpedoes - in this instance 2 4AD torpedoes are better than 1 7AD torpedo as you have a certain about of ablation to deal with, each extra dice is an extra 1.2phaser1s or 1.4Phaser 3s they Feds have to use to clamp down on the damage. You have to also consider your phasers an offensive weapon.

Many of your ships have good shields and can rack up 2AD worth of defensive fire just by using a special order. If they start to focus, or you can tempt them to focus on a ship not Boosting SHields then hammer them with the others. Any special action that limits damage can be useful to you, possibly more than stopping the hits in the first place on occasion.

Avoid the older style ships, the Birds rely too heavily on their plasma, and have only a few, albeit heavy phasers in the phaser suite making them less suitable for heavy defence work. Although their shields do make them useful in terms of absorbance. Klingon Vessels mixed into your fleet will help with that double shield up front and the plethora of phasers in all direction, built around a heavy core of Hawks.

The ROmluan benefit is flexibility in three types of ship design, but no matter what you do end up paying in points for that cloak so you do have to use it (not every ship). It is a serious defence - there's no drones inbound while you are cloaked for a start, one potent ship cloaked can be a significant threat, diverting the phasers away from smaller ships mounting multiple torpedoes as they try to hurt it - or if not getting your hammer in position over the anvil.

 

[jedilard]

There is no defence. You are doomed.
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P.S. I'm the one he's playing against.

 

[LtCmdr]

Just FYI jedilard is my opponent in this (though prior to having all the CLE's he barely qualified as an opponent)

 

[Rambler]

Per the last Captain Log Escorts can use their Plasma D's in Defensive Fire like a Drone Rack. One Plasma D will remove one AD of Drones. Figure eventually Anti Drones will be able to do the same thing.

Also as previously stated learn to love the Bolt in a Escort Heavy Environment. I put both AD of a Plasma F Bolt through a CLEs shields on for 5 Criticas. Since then my opponents have been a little more respectful when it comes to closing with my Plasma Ships.

 

[McKinstry]

Use the recommended fleet composition rules. Fleets were never meant to have more than one escort per very important ship and escorts were never intended for mass use.

http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/

 

[McKinstry]

For those not wanting to drill down on the link.

ACTASF FLEET DOCTRINE RULES
Revised 5pm 2 March 2013
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These rules reflect how the "real" Star Fleet (and the fleets of the other empires) deployed and used their ships. Players may choose to use, modify, or ignore them as they will. Any given tournament judge may announce that his tournament is "historical" and will use these rules, or he may choose to ignore such an announcement (and these rules) perhaps using the term "open format" to clarify the status to players.
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These rules are based on Star Fleet Battles rule (S8.0) and reflect that while an empire with hundreds of ships may include a certain number of each type, in most cases these are distributed more or less evenly and not concentrated in one area. An "open format" player could choose to build an entire fleet of dreadnoughts, while a "historical" player faces limits reflecting that the national fleet command has parceled out the dreadnoughts: one to each admiral.
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Note: The rules below refer to some types and variants which have yet to be added to ACTASF, FC, and/or Starmada but which are due for eventual inclusion. If you see mention of a ship you don’t have, just ignore it. At some future point, system specific rules might eliminate such future notices. OR MATTHEW CAN JUST DELETE THOSE MENTIONS FOR NOW.
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The rules below refer to limits based on the total number of ships, not points. In effect, this encourages players to include a mix of all sizes of ships (frigates, destroyers, cruisers) in their fleet, which was the standard historical pattern. It was extremely rare to see a fleet consisting only of large ships. It was somewhat less rare to see a fleet consisting mostly of smaller ships, particularly when assigned to defend a sector.
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COMMAND LIMITS
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The games Star Fleet Battles and Federation & Empire make extensive use of command ratings and command limits. The result is a limit to the size of a Battle Force of about 12 ships which is a reflection on what those game systems can handle. Federation Commander, A Call to Arms Star Fleet, and Starmada ignore such things entirely (and routinely handle fleets of 20 ships or more).
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The rules below reflect the general idea of a 12-ship Battle Force, but players are perfectly welcome to say that they have combined two or more Battle Forces for this particular battle so there is no limit (other than assigned point value). If you have 13 ships, then (for purposes of these rules) you have one Battle Force of 12 ships and one Battle Force of one ship (i.e., you must completely "fill" one Battle Force of 12 before starting another, but you do not have to have 12 ships; you can use fewer). A Battle Force of one ship can have one of whatever a Battle Force of 12 can, but obviously cannot have one of each type since (after all) it is a Battle Force of one ship. A Battle Force of six ships (part of a task force or fleet of 18 ships) could indeed consist of one dreadnought, one police cutter, two escorts, one scout, and one free trader and be completely integrated into the other Battle Force. (The rules on "Battle Force of 12 ships" apply only to determining how many of each type of ship you can have, and have no impact on how you operate the ships in combat.)
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BATTLE FORCE LIMITS
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These rules reflect that the "leader" and "special" versions of any class are fairly rare and have a specific purpose. If you use more of them in your fleet then some other fleet will be at a disadvantage because you stole all of their specials.
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No Battle Force can have more than:
@ two flagships (any variant of battleship, dreadnought, heavy battlecruiser, heavy command cruiser, or command cruiser).
@ two scouts (any ship with special sensors or scout trait).
@ two escorts (any ship with aegis).
@ one "leader" (CC or CWL) beyond the squadron leader rules above or below.
@ two non-fleet units (police cutter, armed priority transport, free trader, prime trader, any variant of those) unless prohibited by judge.
Note that you do not have to include all (or even any) of the above. Those are a maximum, not a pre-designed fleet.
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SQUADRON LEADERS: SHORT VERSION
For every three ships of the same size/class (i.e., heavy cruiser, war/light cruiser, destroyer/war destroyer, frigate), one of the three may be the Leader or Command variant. If you have any questions about this, consult the long version of the rule.
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SPECIAL SHIPS AND SPECIAL CASES (Feel free to drop any or all of this section from the "short" version.
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Certain special ships (e.g, drone combat variants such as the F5D, fast ships, and commando ships) are interchangeable with standard warships of the same hull type for the purposes of these rules and don’t need their own limits. (Drone ships with special sensors are scouts, not combat variants.)
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Freighters cannot be included in fleets but a scenario might define that a fleet is protecting or attacking freighters.
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Players may include multiple police ships if building a fleet consisting only of police ships and auxiliary ships. Such a fleet could include one regular frigate/destroyer for every three police ships or auxiliaries.
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Bases are normally defined by a scenario. Players can only include a base in their forces if they are defending a fixed locality such as a planet and the scenario rules allow them to buy a base as part of their forces.
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There are a number of "limited production warships" in the universe, such as the OK6 (there was only one of those), and players may not have more than one of each "rare" ship. A current list of such ships available in (ACTASF) (Federation Commander) (Starmada) includes: Romulan K9R, Orion OK6, Hydran D7H; any ship with the "unique" trait.
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In a campaign where players start with a force of ships and keep fighting with whatever survives each battle these rules apply only to the initial formation of the Battle Forces.
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DEFINITIONS
Battleship: variants include BB, BBL, BBV, BBS, SDS,
Dreadnought: variants include: DN, DNH, DNG, DNL, C8, C5, C9, C10, Condor, Vulture, CVA, SDS, etc.
Heavy Battlecruiser: including BCH, C7, NovaHawk-K, RoyalHawk-K, KillerHawk, etc.;
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FUTURE ADDITIONS: These include: carriers, fighters, minesweepers, drone bombardment ships, gunboats, gunboat tenders, maulers, tugs, transport variants of warships, X-ships, Andromedans, auxiliary ships, penal ships, and diplomatic ships. Fleet doctrine rules for these will be provided if and when they are added to ACTASF.
====END====

 

[Nerroth]

I'm surprised it's taken so long for someone to post those rules over here. Perhaps the intent was to wait until Fleet Update #2 was released?

EDIT: I think that a "short version" is intended to show up in some other works as time goes on, which would refer back to this "long version" if further details are required.

 

[JohnDW]

Personally I'd just stay cloaked the entire game, drones cant target your ships when they're cloaked, what ships are you typically using in your fleet against them?

If you feel like you need to decloak, wait til the end of the game and try to take out as many escorts at once with one big ship, a last turn desparation burst of full to the face close range plasma lovin!

(a dreadnought could potentially wipe out at least two escorts by itself in one turn, or at least cripple them)

Edit: and drones themselves cannot be used for defensive fire against anything other than drones, so while the phasers themselves may shoot down your plasma, the drones cant. And plasma D can be used for defense against drones.