Chronos
- Thread starter bdm77
- Start date
Personally I think the Rothan and Rongoth are good, balanced ships...I'm not saying anything about the other two you mention.Voronesh said:
If you want my opinion on the Chronos Gunship (using my standard analysis method, no time to playtest countless variants when I know they can be unbalanced) - my opinion is the same as Lord David and several others, that it is a typical homemade variant, i.e. much too powerful. Drop the beam to 2AD and that's basically spot on. 3AD could be argued for, maybe. Certainly not 5AD!
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
High AD on the beam is ok if, like the Olympus Gunship variant, it loses its other weapons. The Olympus Gunship is a one-trick pony designed to get a nasty beam into skirmish level, but that's all it can do.
If this Cronos variant is supposed to be a line ship it needs to drop a lot of AD on its beam as you say.
If this Cronos variant is supposed to be a line ship it needs to drop a lot of AD on its beam as you say.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
That's a new one... :shock:
Fairly balanced Rothan and Prefect.....
Hrm Rothan has some extra damage and lots extra crew. Makes for better survival.
Side weapons versus rear weapons. Fairly even.
Rothan has 6 AP,DD AD plus close range Twinparticle array. Prefect has as much plus extra 3 SAP,DD,Beam.
Dunno but it doesnt seem perfectly even to me. I didnt compare it to the Rongoth, cause the all round firepower of that one will only help with fighters and rare "were surrounded stuff" Plus the Rothan has more Damage output in a straight fight.
I must be missing something. Really.......(and i hate when im missing something) But id trade T'Loth and Rothan away for the Prefect myself.
Hrm Rothan has some extra damage and lots extra crew. Makes for better survival.
Side weapons versus rear weapons. Fairly even.
Rothan has 6 AP,DD AD plus close range Twinparticle array. Prefect has as much plus extra 3 SAP,DD,Beam.
Dunno but it doesnt seem perfectly even to me. I didnt compare it to the Rongoth, cause the all round firepower of that one will only help with fighters and rare "were surrounded stuff" Plus the Rothan has more Damage output in a straight fight.
I must be missing something. Really.......(and i hate when im missing something) But id trade T'Loth and Rothan away for the Prefect myself.
Olympus Gunship rarely gets taken, why? Because its a one trick pony, no, because it is a one shot pony. Much like the Solarhawk. A ship rarely if ever taken, because it does not have enough survivability for a raid ship. Does it kill other ships, rarely as the one shot is usually not enough without re-rolls. Does it occasionally make serious hay, sure it does, triple damage crits will do that.
Claiming that the Chronus Gunship would be balanced with a 2 AD boresighted beam is the same as saying that the hyperion is overpowered. Ridiculously so it would see as it has plenty of other dice, more damage/crew, only one less interceptor (irrelevant). Heck it even has a beam rear and that 4 AD Plasma Cannon and turreted af weapons.
So which is it...the Hyperion a super ship or the Chronus Gunship a tad too strong and needs some adjustments to 'something' not necessarily gutting its beam? We can obviously agree that the idea of a 4 ad beam is not ridiculous as we have it on the hyp...so perhaps we should start with that and adjust outward.
I did not expect to see the old standby predjudice from you Triggy about homebrew ships. You seem to mostly look as ships from a more statistically minded place and offer some good suggestions on fixing it, not just dismiss it or the main concept behind it.
Ripple
Claiming that the Chronus Gunship would be balanced with a 2 AD boresighted beam is the same as saying that the hyperion is overpowered. Ridiculously so it would see as it has plenty of other dice, more damage/crew, only one less interceptor (irrelevant). Heck it even has a beam rear and that 4 AD Plasma Cannon and turreted af weapons.
So which is it...the Hyperion a super ship or the Chronus Gunship a tad too strong and needs some adjustments to 'something' not necessarily gutting its beam? We can obviously agree that the idea of a 4 ad beam is not ridiculous as we have it on the hyp...so perhaps we should start with that and adjust outward.
I did not expect to see the old standby predjudice from you Triggy about homebrew ships. You seem to mostly look as ships from a more statistically minded place and offer some good suggestions on fixing it, not just dismiss it or the main concept behind it.
Ripple
make it a 4AD beam and its basically an upgraded hyperion, i think most people wouldnt have a problem with that, also the med pulse lasers should be about range 10 instead and you got a ship that would rival the prefect, it turns quicker and has rear weapons as well even if not much. the downfall of prefects is fighters as they cant turn to get them, the chronus doesnt need to.
maybe the fact it has turreted railguns should bring its beam down to 3AD but no further than that.
maybe the fact it has turreted railguns should bring its beam down to 3AD but no further than that.
control freak
Mongoose
Youve just upset my olympus gunships. If well supported mine repeatedly kick shakeys butt. One shot pony indeed. Why just the other day a trio of them took down a tertius and a octurian in a 5 point WAR level game of annihalation with a little help from a sag who knackered the octurians front arc with its first salvo. granted all three olympus and the sag were destroyed by vengefull centurian and a pair of vorchans but the damage was done and the ea prevailed. In the campaign that we are curently playing I can live with that trade off
Incidentally i also fielded three chronos on my right falnk and they did for a second tertius with a little help from a hyperion. I had not rate the chronos very highly at first but if you can keep it out of trouble long enough to get two arcs plus that turret into business particularly in a pack it does tend to make confetti out of enemy ships.
Incidentally i also fielded three chronos on my right falnk and they did for a second tertius with a little help from a hyperion. I had not rate the chronos very highly at first but if you can keep it out of trouble long enough to get two arcs plus that turret into business particularly in a pack it does tend to make confetti out of enemy ships.
Sorry if I sounded dismissive, I didn't mean to be. I did look at it objectively - it was a pretty quick task as little has changed from the original Chronos (a ship that I've already looked at) and my summary is what I would suggest.Ripple said:
I guess I've become a little prejudiced about homebrew ships, probably because I'm not sure I've actually ever seen one that's not overpowered to some degree...either way whenever I offer a comment I still try to stay objective and in this case I'd say reduce the beam to 2 or maybe 3 AD or alternatively drop some of the other secondary weapons.
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
Two questions you always have to ask when putting together a homebrew ship;
How much fun is this going to be to fight against? Overpowered ships don't add to the game. Underpowered ships don't either.
Second, and the thing I don't really get about this Chronos-with-a-beam, what's it for? With it's date of 2262+, Crusade only, presumably- so it will be serving with the Hyperion, Omega and Marathon. What can it do that they aren't already?
As I read the Crusade era EA list, the upper end of the scale- let's not go there. White elephants in profusion. At the lower end, apart from a decent wolfpack aggressor, EA are missing a light carrier and a missile boat.
Raid is too big to wolfpack with. Scratch that.
Hull 6 and damage 18 says the Chronos is too compact and too heavily built to have the internal volume to make much of a carrier. Dedicated unit there maybe.
As for a missile unit, apart from being deeply worried by the Saggy precedent- and I haven't seen a fan suggestion that even comes close to that for overpowered- I have a strange idea.
Hollow out the turret mount- ditch the railguns- and fit a large set of an updated version of the racks on the Missile Tethys and Missile Hyperion, all other stats would remain the same, add Advanced Light Missile Rack, Range 20, F, 8AD, Super AP Precise Slow-Load, with the same bennie as the Apollo's- ignores slow loading until crippled. No missile variants.
It would be tactically different, it would fill a real hole in the fleet, it would probably be technically feasible. 2AD too many, or lose some of the pulse cannon?
How much fun is this going to be to fight against? Overpowered ships don't add to the game. Underpowered ships don't either.
Second, and the thing I don't really get about this Chronos-with-a-beam, what's it for? With it's date of 2262+, Crusade only, presumably- so it will be serving with the Hyperion, Omega and Marathon. What can it do that they aren't already?
As I read the Crusade era EA list, the upper end of the scale- let's not go there. White elephants in profusion. At the lower end, apart from a decent wolfpack aggressor, EA are missing a light carrier and a missile boat.
Raid is too big to wolfpack with. Scratch that.
Hull 6 and damage 18 says the Chronos is too compact and too heavily built to have the internal volume to make much of a carrier. Dedicated unit there maybe.
As for a missile unit, apart from being deeply worried by the Saggy precedent- and I haven't seen a fan suggestion that even comes close to that for overpowered- I have a strange idea.
Hollow out the turret mount- ditch the railguns- and fit a large set of an updated version of the racks on the Missile Tethys and Missile Hyperion, all other stats would remain the same, add Advanced Light Missile Rack, Range 20, F, 8AD, Super AP Precise Slow-Load, with the same bennie as the Apollo's- ignores slow loading until crippled. No missile variants.
It would be tactically different, it would fill a real hole in the fleet, it would probably be technically feasible. 2AD too many, or lose some of the pulse cannon?
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
For an 8AD missile rack with no slow-loading? Bin all the pulse cannons. Leave it the particle beams for AF defence and call it a missile boat.
dant164
Mongoose
-Rears ugly head-
Dont post much (Mainly a SST player) but I was to tempted to ignore this. I havent played ACTA long, and I recently purchased my first Chronos. Needless to say i was impressed. My first match with it was a one point battle level game against a shadow player, were boith pretty new to ACTA
Shadows:
Hunter
5 Shadow fighters
EA:
Saggitarius
Chronos
Cooperative fire between the sag and the chronos nailed both the hunter and all five fighter flights. I have used the saggitarius, so wasnt incredibly surprised when the front arc heavy missile knocked off 60+ points of damage under CAF. What did surprise me is how the Chronos removed the remaining health from it and destroyed the fighter flights next turn. As I said, i was deeply impressed.
My point is this: Chronos variant? why would you want one?
Dont post much (Mainly a SST player) but I was to tempted to ignore this. I havent played ACTA long, and I recently purchased my first Chronos. Needless to say i was impressed. My first match with it was a one point battle level game against a shadow player, were boith pretty new to ACTA
Shadows:
Hunter
5 Shadow fighters
EA:
Saggitarius
Chronos
Cooperative fire between the sag and the chronos nailed both the hunter and all five fighter flights. I have used the saggitarius, so wasnt incredibly surprised when the front arc heavy missile knocked off 60+ points of damage under CAF. What did surprise me is how the Chronos removed the remaining health from it and destroyed the fighter flights next turn. As I said, i was deeply impressed.
My point is this: Chronos variant? why would you want one?
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
Getting the numbers right for a missile variant might take a bit of balancing. 6AD of turreted railgun is not a little firepower, and probably not a small installation.
Ignoring the Saggy entirely- probably best- the Missile Hyperion had small numbers of slow loading missiles all round, but it also retains some pulse cannon fit. Skirmish.
The Patrol- level Missile Tethys has the same forward fire, but no other weapons at all.
The Apollo's the odd one, with no secondary armament. One of the main advantages of using a Chronos as the base platform would be that you do get self- defensive abilities. If you assume they are dedicated light missile racks, unable to use any of the usual EA missile variants, the line runs 4AD slow- 4AD slow plus other arc light missile and secondaries- 8AD limited type fast load and heavy secondaries- 8AD normal firing speed all variants available.
That is a bit of a spike there, isn't it? Still, I don't want to lose the pulse cannon. Lose a hardpoint on each- drop it to 6AD forward, 4AD aft port starboard- and revise the missile rack, 4AD normal or 8AD slow.
Yeah, I'm being a tad testy again lately..need to tone it down.
Homebrew is almost always a case of folks wanting to find interesting things to due with models they already own. Sort of like in campaigns, some folks love free build other folks love reinforcement schedules. Look at Wulf's comments about the ten Solarhawks somewhere on the board. He likes the historical campaign, nothing wrong with that but it is not everyones cup of tea.
On the overpowered nature of homebrew, I tend to agree. But most just need a solid case of tweaking. In this case the mix of secondaries and heavy beam is pretty high, I gave it a slight edge over the prefect due to usability of its dice vs usability of SAs. I agree the beam needs to come down to 4 AD and tweak the secondaries a bit. Crusade era hyperion is done. Sure we have the marathon coming out to do that but eh.
And I thought the Crusade era did not have the standard Hyperion anymore. Really wish the darn book was out already.
Ripple
Homebrew is almost always a case of folks wanting to find interesting things to due with models they already own. Sort of like in campaigns, some folks love free build other folks love reinforcement schedules. Look at Wulf's comments about the ten Solarhawks somewhere on the board. He likes the historical campaign, nothing wrong with that but it is not everyones cup of tea.
On the overpowered nature of homebrew, I tend to agree. But most just need a solid case of tweaking. In this case the mix of secondaries and heavy beam is pretty high, I gave it a slight edge over the prefect due to usability of its dice vs usability of SAs. I agree the beam needs to come down to 4 AD and tweak the secondaries a bit. Crusade era hyperion is done. Sure we have the marathon coming out to do that but eh.
And I thought the Crusade era did not have the standard Hyperion anymore. Really wish the darn book was out already.
Ripple
Tank
Mongoose
Cant say Im a fan of the chronos, the few times I've used them they've been beamed to death before they can get into effective range, they're not fast enought to escort the Marathon and against any fleet with beams they dont have enough damage to weather the storm before unleashing their payload. I like the weapon loadout, it's ace, as are the interceptors and the hull but as a "fast attack" escort it seriously lacks the fast element.
OK, after reading all post here come’s some tweaking! Remember the pulse cannons lose all traits, but again reduce the range and cut a bit the railgun. The beam idea come from the model it looks like two forward Laser ports and stole the stats from the Olympus-G.
Chronos Gunship
PL: Raid
Speed: 8
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage:20/5
Crew: 18/5
Troops: 2
Special: Interceptors 3
Weapons
Medium Laser Cannon: 18", B, AD 4, Beam DD SAP
Railgun: 12", T, AD 4, AP DD
Medium Pulse Cannon: Range 10", F P S A, AD 4
Particle Beams: 5", P S, AD 4, AF Weak
Arcadia
Chronos Gunship
PL: Raid
Speed: 8
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage:20/5
Crew: 18/5
Troops: 2
Special: Interceptors 3
Weapons
Medium Laser Cannon: 18", B, AD 4, Beam DD SAP
Railgun: 12", T, AD 4, AP DD
Medium Pulse Cannon: Range 10", F P S A, AD 4
Particle Beams: 5", P S, AD 4, AF Weak
Arcadia
The only main reasons I can think of are looks for the player (likes the Chronos model) and that the EA may want to produce this sort of variant for the fleet as it phases the older and more expensive to maintain (as their numbers dwindle) Hyperion.katadder said:
The stats look better, I'll have a look at them in a bit more detail in a bit
