Choose Location with ranged weapons

[DamonJynx]

Another option is to enforce the repetitive CM optional rule on pg. 89 of tue core book. It gives the opponent an advantage based on predictable combat tactics.

That can at least make players think about whether or not they want to continue to risk the repetitive CM. I use this rule and find it sometimes deters and sometimes doesn't, depending on the stakes of the fight. I find low stakes= not so repetitive. High stakes= more repetitive and risky.

I'll have to start doing that I think. Even though I didn't particularly want to.

 

[Loz]

There are consequences to what they do.

It seems to me like they've simply gone on a murder spree. Well, the profile of Chaos has just been raised significantly and that is something Chaos doesn't like (read the essays on the eternal struggle for more insight on that. Perhaps encourage your two murder-happy players to do the same). In such a situation, 'adjustments' occur, and this happens in the saga too. Other Lords of Chaos, like Arioch, will take a personal interest in these characters and send their own agents out to stop them. This means your characters will start facing agents who are as good as, if not better than, themselves - and who'll use similar tactics.

And how about Law? If there's a couple of rampant, murderous deathbringers on the loose then Law will also send its own powerful agents to stop them.

This is actually an issue that has little to do with Choose Location. Its more how you start to control the power gamers' behaviour.

 

[Morgan d'Barganfore]

There are some heroic abilities that might be available to intelligent foes (or instinctive to tough but less cerebral monsters) that could even things up a bit.. Advanced Evasion, Sudden Strike or Street Fighter from Deus Vult rules.. (about p88)

 

[DamonJynx]

There are consequences to what they do.

This is kind of what I was thinking. So far they've run afoul of; Pyaray, by destroying his avatar and The Whisperer; they commandeered a slave ship that happened to be owned by a high ranking member of the Cult of the Sword Rulers by killing the officers of the ship; the lover of the murderd Pan Tangian sorceress killed by her brother, the primary Deathbringer; the families of 2 Dakosian merchants, one whom was innocent of murder, the other an agent and harbourer of a Cult of Blue Assassins and his two children, a boy and a girl whom they've sent to the Deathbringers to be trained and indoctrinated (by convincing them that the Blue Assassins murdered their parents - when tehy find out the truth...), not to mention the Blue Assassins themselves and to top it off, the crew of another pirate ship whose Captain they murdered. I think I have more than enough enemies at present.

It seems to me like they've simply gone on a murder spree. Well, the profile of Chaos has just been raised significantly and that is something Chaos doesn't like (read the essays on the eternal struggle for more insight on that.Perhaps encourage your two murder-happy players to do the same).

Not really. However they probably could've resolved some of their encounters without killing everyone.

In such a situation, 'adjustments' occur, and this happens in the saga too. Other Lords of Chaos, like Arioch, will take a personal interest in these characters and send their own agents out to stop them. This means your characters will start facing agents who are as good as, if not better than, themselves - and who'll use similar tactics.

And how about Law? If there's a couple of rampant, murderous deathbringers on the loose then Law will also send its own powerful agents to stop them.

The Blue Assassins leader escaped via a couple of Runes, Barrier and Passing. He has marked them well.

This is actually an issue that has little to do with Choose Location. Its more how you start to control the power gamers' behaviour.

Yeah, I know. But their logic kind of makes sense. Perhaps when the Pan Tangian apothesises they'll see the light. Part of the problem too, is that AFAIK, I'm the only one who has actually read the saga, so they're unfamiliar with just how nasty the Lords of the Higher Realms can be!

 

[Morgan d'Barganfore]

Had a think about this.
Probably the simplest thing you can do is to increase the number of cannon fodder. Even Connan would get exhausted eventually if a whole continent's worth of goblins (or whatever) mobbed him.

 

[Dan True]

Had a think about this.
Probably the simplest thing you can do is to increase the number of cannon fodder. Even Connan would get exhausted eventually if a whole continent's worth of goblins (or whatever) mobbed him.

But that really takes out the fun and excitement of combat. Wading through hordes of incompetent foes is fun a few times, but it quickly gets boring. Combat is best when each fight is different, meaningful and the enemy is competent and provides a challenge.
Opping incompetent enemies by doubling their numbers, just make the fight longer.

- Dan

 

[Morgan d'Barganfore]

I quite agree.
But if the GM's group are steamrollering (wiping out?) the local population then it's not down to him to stop it. That's up the the party. But if it becomes less fun ("Oh not not another bloody goblin"), then the party has a chance and choice to pursue other goals.
It was intended as an option for a GM who seemed to be asking for help.
Freely given. If not suitable, then freely ignored.

 

[Dan True]

It was intended as an option for a GM who seemed to be asking for help.
Freely given. If not suitable, then freely ignored.

Sure, sure, I'm not saying your wrong in giving the advice. I just wanted to stress the negative factors of the piece of advice, as a less experienced gm might not realise it before after it has ruined a few otherwise-memorable combats.

- Dan

 

[Morgan d'Barganfore]

I guess the alternative is an out of campaign "sit down and talk" but that doesn't work with everyone and can put some people's backs up.
It looked like the campaign was headed towards a competition, with increasing levels of NPC buffing, which isn't a great way to go as it's likely to encourage the "let's kill anything that moves" activity, stress out the GM, and eventually cause the campaign to collapse.
GM isn't having fun as is and is getting stressed. Not good.
So upping the number of grunts (goblins or whatever) by 5 or 10% a time shouldn't be a party killer, nor stress out the GM (at least not more than at present) and eventually, one would hope, someone in the party would pipe up with a desire to do something different. That gives the GM a chance to work with the part rather than trying to frog march them.
And, yes, I've used this before, albeit not a baldly stated, and interspersed with other interactions. It turned out quite well in the end.

Sorry, that's the long version.

Short version: I was trying to help - but need to temper it with "don't turn up the wick too fast" - e.g. only up the goblin/grunt monsters by 5 or 10% per encounter..

 

[DamonJynx]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the advice and I apologise for hijacking the thread.

I think I may have given a false impression with my previous posts.

I'm having a ball with this campaign I'm running and the MRQ2 rules. It's the most fun campaign I've run for ages!

I was simply after advice on how other GM's have persuaded PC's to not choose the same CM time after time.

We enjoy combat heavy games, after all, we're all ex-D&D hack'n'slashers, power gamers, myself included.

The majority of the party kills have been legitimate within the scope of the campaign (check out my campaign site, a link is posted elsewhere). I'm trying to keep the challenges interesting and with roughly even numbers of opponents who are generally within +/-10% of the PC's skills level. It's just that with the Choose Location (Head) CM, the NPC's are taken out quite quickly. When I've gained CM's (a bloody rare occurrence, I'll have to sack my dice and start again!), I've tried to use different ones to show the players other "tricks". But in future, particularly when they come up against the Sword Ruler Cultist whose ship they commandeered and his cronies, if the opportunity arises I'll use the same CM as them. Maybe then they'll realise it's not the way to go, but knowing my group, they probably won't.

 

[DamonJynx]

Have the enemies constantly attack the PC's heads?

+1

 

[Morgan d'Barganfore]

Bleed is a very nasty one too.
More than you might think.. recommend you try it sometime.

 

[DamonJynx]

Bleed is a very nasty one too.
More than you might think.. recommend you try it sometime.

The spear fighters are quite fond of Impale also. that has some very nasty side effects.

 

[Morgan d'Barganfore]

Hi DamonJ,
I've never actually used impale to be honest (low brawn skill) and stingy with using my CAs.
(50% of the party are mostly cerebral and one actively avoids anything physical such as combat).
I favour a longsword and shield, so impale is possible.

Can you tell me about the side effects you had in mind please?

 

[DamonJynx]

Can you tell me about the side effects you had in mind please?

If the impaling weapon is not removed all skill checks are reduced by 10% per size category of the weapon, more often than not in a melee it would be a spear or similar so it's a 20% penalty.

You get to roll damage twice and choose which roll to use.

For anybody to remove the impaling item in combat requires a brawn roll, the use of a CA and the weapons listed damage is rolled, no damage modifier is applied and armour does not reduce the damage.

Otherwise the 'impalee' can remove themselves from combat and try using the First Aid and Brawn skills at -30% for a medium weapon to attempt to remove it without causing extra damage to themselves. They can also have a 'friend' make the First Aid and Brawn skill rolls to remove the offending object.

So essentially 1 combatant fights at a significant penalty, or 1 - 2 combatants are effectively removed from combat for 1D3 minutes.

 

[Morgan d'Barganfore]

That's actually quite wicked.
But where's the 1d3 minutes come from please?

 

[Dan True]

That's actually quite wicked.
But where's the 1d3 minutes come from please?

The time it takes to take a first aid check.. i.e. helping the spear out of a comrade.

- Dan

 

[Morgan d'Barganfore]

RIghto, so that's like 10 to 30 combat rounds...

 

[Morgan d'Barganfore]

I haven't used that yet as we play Deus Vult and you have points buy for kit each mission (can't retain any after missions). Therefore I only have 1 big sword. However, it's worth keeping an eye open for how to obtain one during a mission for exactly such purpose...
Cheers Damon & Dan

 

[DamonJynx]

you're welcome