Character generation: racial skills question

[strategoi_nikolai]

I don't see an answer to this in the FAQ, so I will pose it here:

When creating a character, you receive certain racial skills, generally 2 ranks worth.

My question is do you consider those "racial ranks" when totting up your maximum ranks in a skill, or do you consider them a "racial bonus" of +2?

IOW, if my Meadow Shemite Soldier gets Diplomacy 2 because of his race, can he then only spend 2 of his skill points on increasing it at 1st level (the Max. Ranks being 4)?

 

[Trodax]

The background skills are ranks and therefore count against the level maximum.

IOW, your example with the Shemite is correct.

 

[Turim]

The background skills are 2 normal ranks, but your example may or may not be correct depending on your Int. Unless your 1st-level Meadow Shemite Soldier uses skill points gained from Int 12+, he will not be able to put more points into Diplomacy at this level. If he has skill points gained from Int 12+, he can put 2 of these into Diplomacy for a total of 4 ranks.

 

[Trodax]

The background skills are 2 normal ranks, but your example may or may not be correct depending on your Int. Unless your 1st-level Meadow Shemite Soldier uses skill points gained from Int 12+, he will not be able to put more points into Diplomacy at this level. If he has skill points gained from Int 12+, he can put 2 of these into Diplomacy for a total of 4 ranks.

Ooops. Didn't notice the cross-class aspect of that example.

Actually, I think the maximum for a cross-class skill - (lvl+3)/2 - is still in effect even for the free skill points you get from high Int.
IOW, the 1st level Meadow Shemite Soldier would get 2 ranks in Diplomacy for free, but wouldn't then be able to raise it further (even with high-Int skill points) because 2 is the maximum allowed rank at 1st level for a cross-class skill. I'm not 100% sure on that, but I've never seen anything that contradicts it.

Also note that getting a skill as a background skill doesn't make it a class skill.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Also note that getting a skill as a background skill doesn't make it a class skill.

The only exception to this rule is the Adapatabiilty racial ability of Hyborians. If I recall correctly, this allows two skills chosen at character creation to always be considered class skills no matter what class the character currently is and gives them a +2 circumstance bonus when using those skills. Since the +2 is a bonus and not ranks in the skill, the player can still add 4 ranks into the skill for an effective 6 ranks in the two skills at first level. And of course, the Hyborian gets 4 sets of 2 skills ranks to put in any 4 skills and nothing prevents you from choosing your two Adaptability skills among those 4 skills.

Raven

 

[Hyborian Apeman]

Yep, right on Raven. So the moral of the story, if you want an uber specialized character, Hyboreans are the most efficient way to achieve them.

Which seems to fit, considering the descriptions of Hyboreans of this age.

 

[pa11ad1n]

If the skill is cross class you can only have 2 ranks in it at first level. Whether you had those ranks from racial (free) or normal skill points (half a rank per point) or bonus skill points (1 for 1).

I'm pretty sure about that, but my book is packed away so I can't check. I could be wrong. 'I just don't think that I am.

 

[Turim]

Trodax, pa11ad1n: The AE (page 74) says this: "In effect, all skills are treated as class skills for the various skill points gained through having a high Intelligence." Those who have the first printing of the core book might have noticed (page 80) that the example 1st-level Conan uses his bonus skill points to buy 4 ranks of Gather Information, which is a cross-class skill for him. However, in the AE (page 74), 2 of these bonus points are diverted from Gather Information to Heal. Adding to the confusion is the fact that the table in the AE seems based on the example in the first printing, where Conan spends 4 of his class points on Listen and 4 of his bonus points on Spot. The example in the AE has him buy Spot with his class points. The table in the AE also gives him a total of 4 ranks in Intimidate, 2 of which I cannot find a source for, and gives him 1 more bonus point on 2nd level than he should have.

 

[Hyborian Apeman]

Trodax, pa11ad1n: The AE (page 74) says this: "In effect, all skills are treated as class skills for the various skill points gained through having a high Intelligence."

Turim, I believe that only applies to whether or not skill points or purchased on a 1 for 1 skill point/rank exchange or if 1 skill point buys 1/2 a rank. The usual caps for cross class skills should apply even to skill purchased with a 12+ intelligence.

I thought I read somewhere that the skill examples you cited were incorrect, but I cannot find where right now.

 

[Turim]

I did some digging and found an old thread about this called Scholars and Sleight of Hand.

 

[Trodax]

Well, Turim, it seems you were right. In that old thread, Vincent D very clearly states his opinion on the matter.

I guess what threw me off was the example (I only have the AE) where the 1st level Conan allocated 4 ranks to all his class skills but only 2 ranks to the two cross-class skill (Gather Info and Heal) that he bought with bonus points.
The example from the first printing (that you described) seems a lot better at clarifying the rule, can't really understand why they changed it.

Anyway, Turim, thanks for digging that old thread up and clarifying things.

The table in the AE also gives him a total of 4 ranks in Intimidate, 2 of which I cannot find a source for, and gives him 1 more bonus point on 2nd level than he should have.

I agree on that, must be a typo.

 

[Trodax]

BTW, strategoi_nikolai, sorry for derailing things and maybe making the answer to your original question unnecessarily complex.

So, just to sum up:

* Background skills give you free ranks to various skills.

* Skill points from your class may be spent as follows:
- Class skills at the cost of 1 point per 1 rank, maximum is level+3
- Cross-class skills at the cost of 1 point per 1/2 rank, maximum is (level+3)/2

* Bonus skill points from having a high Intelligence may be spent on any skill at the cost of 1 point per 1 rank. Maximum is always level+3.


Correct?

 

[strategoi_nikolai]

Thanks to all--I have my head around it now.

Tomorrow night we start the CONAN campaign. Think kind thoughts!

 

[Bregales]

Thanks to all--I have my head around it now.

Tomorrow night we start the CONAN campaign. Think kind thoughts!

Hey, good luck with your first adventure! Have :twisted: Fun