Cat Problem

[Agis]

Was already discussed here:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35485&highlight=pintle

See Laffe's expertly answer!

And because I anticipated a posting like yours on this eager forum I carefully said: "For most Pintle mounted MGs... "

 

[hithero]

Yes, but its not true though or we would get 5 Shermans for the price of 1 Panther. This is a simplified game on a table-top and not a resource management simulation, equal weapons should have an equal point value and not come at a discount just because an army used more of them.

 

[Laffe]

Yes, but its not true though or we would get 5 Shermans for the price of 1 Panther. This is a simplified game on a table-top and not a resource management simulation, equal weapons should have an equal point value and not come at a discount just because an army used more of them.

But wouldn't it be boring if all things were equal? Like chess? There is beauty in order, but also in disorder

 

[Alexb83]

Yes, but its not true though or we would get 5 Shermans for the price of 1 Panther. This is a simplified game on a table-top and not a resource management simulation, equal weapons should have an equal point value and not come at a discount just because an army used more of them.

No indeed - as I've pointed out, equal points gives you roughly equal potential and almost always leads to stalemate (barring the luck of the dice). If you want to have something more historically accurate, then you need to start by forgetting the notion of equality of forces - no sensible commander will size up the enemy and then say 'we'll take just enough to give them a fair fight'.

And the fun of wargaming, at least from my pov is in coming up with innovative solutions to the problems that the game presents you with.

Defensive games can be very very good fun - you really can make the enemy pay for every inch of ground if you give the defenders the appropriate advantages to compensate for smaller forces.

 

[hithero]

Yes, but its not true though or we would get 5 Shermans for the price of 1 Panther. This is a simplified game on a table-top and not a resource management simulation, equal weapons should have an equal point value and not come at a discount just because an army used more of them.

But wouldn't it be boring if all things were equal? Like chess? There is beauty in order, but also in disorder

But then again, why do pintle MG's all have the same stat if you don't want all things the same? Especially when the MG has differing stats when used elsewhere. There is enough variety in the forces without having to artificially reduce the cost of German pintles. When eqipment has the same effect then they should cost the same points, artillery support all have the same cost and effect and yet could be fired from a wide variety of guns - so why's it all the same, why just pick on German MG's?

 

[Agis]

But then again, why do pintle MG's all have the same stat if you don't want all things the same? Especially when the MG has differing stats when used elsewhere. There is enough variety in the forces without having to artificially reduce the cost of German pintles. When eqipment has the same effect then they should cost the same points, artillery support all have the same cost and effect and yet could be fired from a wide variety of guns - so why's it all the same, why just pick on German MG's?

It is the other way around.
Almost every vehicle MG costs around 25 points.

The different costs came from the above discussed reasons.

But again as a rough guideline: If you want to add or remove a vehicle MG charge +/- 25 points.

 

[Alexb83]

Back to the OPs original point - you could also start using things like bridges and rivers, which Tigers cannot traverse - or throwing in mechanical reliability issues for all of the later german tanks.

But obviously that's not the kind of answer you were after as you didn't want externally implimented constraints.

In terms of straight points value - based on other posts, I don't know if the points are internally based solely on the stats lines that you have for each vehicle. If they are, then I would say they still don't give you a nice clear picture - because on top of those stats is an element of chance and cirumstance.

Do 3 tank destroyers have a reasonable chance under most circumstances to hit a Tiger with enough shots to have a resonable chance of killing it?

Similarly, does a Tiger have enough chances under normal circumstances to kill the 3 tank destroyers before they kill it?

If the answer to both these questions is yes, then the points are probably reasonably balanced.

THEN you need to imagine being the Germans, who in reality would face 5 or 6 to 1 odds, based solely on production numbers.