But what does <insert component here> actually do?

[Terry Mixon]

I stole a house rule from a fellow GM and my players are pretty happy with it.

Improving After the Game Begins:

PC’s may use their Jump Time to improve/acquire skills and raise Characteristic Levels. A PC may improve both Characteristics and Skills at the same time, with some limitations as outlined below.

At the beginning of a Jump Week each player must announce which, if any, Skill and Characteristics they are working on during the Jump.

Training to acquire new or higher skill levels:

1. A PC may seek to improve a single skill through study and training while in Jump Space, but only by dedicating 20 hours per Jump Space Week to the program.
2. A PC may switch to another skill at any time, but they lose all training hours in the previous skill if they do.
3. When a PC gains another level they may continue with this skill or switch to another without penalty.
4. At the end of each Jump Space Week, the PC must succeed on an Average 8+ (Int Mod + Edu Mod) check for that week to count toward improvement. If failed, the study must be repeated.
5. PC’s may advance only from none to 0, to 1, to 2, to 3, etc. Jack-O-Trades may not be used as a Level 0 for Training purposes.
6. A PC may never improve a skill to a level higher than their Edu Mod.
7. Materials to help with this study are available at most (C+ Starports) for 50 credits per week of study needed to acquire the level sought, see below.
8. The following hours (Jump Space Weeks) and costs are required to attain each level of skill improvement:

• Level 0: 40 hours (2 jump space weeks) Cr100
• Level 1: Level 0 + 80 hours (4 jump space weeks) Cr200
• Level 2: Level 1 + 160 hours (8 jump space weeks) Cr400
• Level 3: Level 2 + 320 hours (16 jump space weeks) Cr800
• Level 4: Level 3 + 640 hours (32 jump space weeks) Cr1,600
• Level 5: Level 4 + 1280 hours (64 jump space weeks) Cr3,200

Training to Raise Characteristics while in Jump (max 15):

Physical Characteristics (Str, Dex & End) and both Intelligence and Education may be improved through training. Social Standing may not. A Maximum of two Characteristics may be improved at a time.

Strength, Dexterity or Endurance

• While working on Physical Characteristics, each is increased temporarily by 1 point.
• At the end of each Jump Week the PC must succeed on an Easy 4+ (no DM) Task for each Characteristic being worked on to indicate they stuck to the exercise programs. If they fail they must repeat that week.
• At the end of six successful Jump Weeks of training the 1 point increase becomes permanent.

Intelligence (max 15)

• Intelligence Boosting is a slow, costly, High Tech procedure consisting of taking a costly drug and using special equipment worn on the PC’s head while sleeping. A one week on, one week off, procedure makes this process amenable to use during Jump Weeks by Travellers.
• A course of treatment with the Algernon Drug and its accompanying hardware/software may be purchased on Worlds of TL 12+ for 1,000 cr. The Drug and accompanying gear used for only one course of treatment and new stronger drugs and gear must be purchased for each subsequent course of treatment.
• Beginning a course of the Algernon Treatment immediately raises the PC’s Int Characteristic, temporarily, by 1.
• Completing a course Algernon Treatment takes 26 Jump Weeks (1 week in jump, 1 out of jump) or 1 year, and makes the Int increase permanent.

Education (max Int Characteristic)

• May only improve Education up to the level of the PC’s Int Characteristic.
• General Education Tapes (software) may be purchased for 100 cr times the PC’s current Edu level.
• General Education Tapes may be purchased wherever Skill Training courses are available.
• At the end of each Jump Week the PC must succeed on an Easy 4+ Task to have completed that week’s courses.
• Completing 26 weeks of course work raises Edu level permanently by 1.

 

[swordtart]

I stole a house rule from a fellow GM and my players are pretty happy with it.

Improving After the Game Begins:

PC’s may use their Jump Time to improve/acquire skills and raise Characteristic Levels. A PC may improve both Characteristics and Skills at the same time, with some limitations as outlined below.

At the beginning of a Jump Week each player must announce which, if any, Skill and Characteristics they are working on during the Jump.

Training to acquire new or higher skill levels:

1. A PC may seek to improve a single skill through study and training while in Jump Space, but only by dedicating 20 hours per Jump Space Week to the program.
2. A PC may switch to another skill at any time, but they lose all training hours in the previous skill if they do.
3. When a PC gains another level they may continue with this skill or switch to another without penalty.
4. At the end of each Jump Space Week, the PC must succeed on an Average 8+ (Int Mod + Edu Mod) check for that week to count toward improvement. If failed, the study must be repeated.
5. PC’s may advance only from none to 0, to 1, to 2, to 3, etc. Jack-O-Trades may not be used as a Level 0 for Training purposes.
6. A PC may never improve a skill to a level higher than their Edu Mod.
7. Materials to help with this study are available at most (C+ Starports) for 50 credits per week of study needed to acquire the level sought, see below.
8. The following hours (Jump Space Weeks) and costs are required to attain each level of skill improvement:

• Level 0 - 40 hours (2 weeks) Cr 100
• Level 1 - Level 0 + 80 hours (4 weeks) Cr 100
• Level 2 - Level 1 + 160 hours (8 more weeks) Cr 400
• Level 3 - Level 2 + 320 hours (16 more weeks) Cr 800
• Level 4 - Level 3 + 640 hours (32 more weeks) Cr 1,600
• Level 5 - Level 4 + 1280 hours (64 more weeks) Cr 3,200

Training to Raise Characteristics while in Jump (max 15):

Physical Characteristics (Str, Dex & End) and both Intelligence and Education may be improved through training. Social Standing may not. A Maximum of two Characteristics may be improved at a time.

Strength, Dexterity or Endurance

• While working on Physical Characteristics, each is increased temporarily by 1 point.
• At the end of each Jump Week the PC must succeed on an Easy 4+ (no DM) Task for each Characteristic being worked on to indicate they stuck to the exercise programs. If they fail they must repeat that week.
• At the end of six successful Jump Weeks of training the 1 point increase becomes permanent.

Intelligence (max 15)

• Intelligence Boosting is a slow, costly, High Tech procedure consisting of taking a costly drug and using special equipment worn on the PC’s head while sleeping. A one week on, one week off, procedure makes this process amenable to use during Jump Weeks by Travellers.
• A course of treatment with the Algernon Drug and its accompanying hardware/software may be purchased on Worlds of TL 12+ for 1,000 cr. The Drug and accompanying gear used for only one course of treatment and new stronger drugs and gear must be purchased for each subsequent course of treatment.
• Beginning a course of the Algernon Treatment immediately raises the PC’s Int Characteristic, temporarily, by 1.
• Completing a course Algernon Treatment takes 26 Jump Weeks (1 week in jump, 1 out of jump) or 1 year, and makes the Int increase permanent.

Education (max Int Characteristic)

• May only improve Education up to the level of the PC’s Int Characteristic.
• General Education Tapes (software) may be purchased for 100 cr times the PC’s current Edu level.
• General Education Tapes may be purchased wherever Skill Training courses are available.
• At the end of each Jump Week the PC must succeed on an Easy 4+ Task to have completed that week’s courses.
• Completing 26 weeks of course work raises Edu level permanently by 1.

2 weeks to be fully competent in a brand new skill sounds a bit fast. I used 1 week to reduce the -3 to -2, another 2 weeks to reduce that -2 to -1. Another 4 weeks for the full level 0. INT based skill check to succeed (so INT bonus -3 to reduce the skill penalty to -2). Sometimes it is hard to get your head round a brand new concept.

 

[Terry Mixon]

2 weeks to be fully competent in a brand new skill sounds a bit fast. I used 1 week to reduce the -3 to -2, another 2 weeks to reduce that -2 to -1. Another 4 weeks for the full level 0. INT based skill check to succeed (so INT bonus -3 to reduce the skill penalty to -2). Sometimes it is hard to get your head round a brand new concept.

That's not bad, either, but I wouldn't say level 0 is fully competent. In my mind, it's more familiar with the basics, and it still takes a month (with half being study). Personally, I think 40 hours of study and work to get basic familiarity works.

Level 1 is full competence, in my mind, and that takes an additional 80 hours of study and two full months (with half studying) of work.

YMMV.

 

[Condottiere]

Athletics.

Attaining.

Maintaining.

Retaining.

Running about for four weeks gets you Athletics/zero.

 

[Terry Mixon]

2 weeks to be fully competent in a brand new skill sounds a bit fast. I used 1 week to reduce the -3 to -2, another 2 weeks to reduce that -2 to -1. Another 4 weeks for the full level 0. INT based skill check to succeed (so INT bonus -3 to reduce the skill penalty to -2). Sometimes it is hard to get your head round a brand new concept.

The core book has this to say about learning skills:

Remember, your Traveller may have a maximum number of skill levels equal to three times their combined INT and EDU score. If they already have this many skills after leaving a career, any additional skills may only be learned to level 0.

That tells me that level 0 is indeed only gaining familiarity with the skill, not true competence.

 

[J. L. Brown]

I think GURPS figures a skill point is about equivalent to 200 hours of training; and I tend to use that as a rule of thumb. Even intensive training for 8 hours a day is not going to grant a skill in less than two weeks -- unless there is some super-science direct-brain teaching going on.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I think GURPS figures a skill point is about equivalent to 200 hours of training; and I tend to use that as a rule of thumb. Even intensive training for 8 hours a day is not going to grant a skill in less than two weeks -- unless there is some super-science direct-brain teaching going on.

The house rule I use would take 120 hours of training to get that skill at competence from nothing, so it's close enough for me. Additional skill points take even more time per point. Someone else could always tweak it to suit, if they want, by doubling the time requirement.

 

[Condottiere]

There is the ten thousand hour rule.

If effective, presumably factor/three or four.

 

[Terry Mixon]

There is the ten thousand hour rule.

If effective, presumably factor/three or four.

I thought the ten-thousand-hour rule was to master something. So, level 4? Or would that be level 3?

Or, on reflection, that's probably what you were saying. The word factor threw me.

 

[CordwainerFish]

I thought the ten-thousand-hour rule was to master something.

If Malcolm Gladwell says something, it's wrong. Count on it.

 

[Terry Mixon]

If Malcolm Gladwell says something, it's wrong. Count on it.

Don't look at me. I didn't bring him up.

 

[Sigtrygg]

And in the first paragraph of that section we end with "The experience which is gained as the individual character travels and adventures is,
in a very real sense, an increased ability to play the role which he has assumed." The philosophy is player advancement, not character advancement. By playing your character you will be come better at identifying when it is your characters time to step up.

How about we cherry pick different sentences to get a real insight?

"and further improvement can happen only by dedicated endeavor."
"Limited personal development and experience is possible in the sense of increasing
abilities and skills."
"The above is the only ordinary method of self-improvement available to characters.Highly scientific or esoteric methods of improving personal skills and characteristics are logically available, provided the individuals search hard enough for them. Such methods could include RNA intelligence or education implants, surgical alteration, military or mercenary training, and other systems. Alternatives to the above methods must be administered by the referee."

 

[Sigtrygg]

My point exactly you use the technology to advance. Not sure why you would bother spending all that extra to get instruction 4, just let the robot use the skill.

This is the way it works in LBB:4

You can only instruct another in a skill at a level one less than your instruction skill - so a robot with instruction 4 (max) can raise a skill in another to 3 - and one less than your own (instructor) skill level - hence you need to buy the skill level 4 package for the robot so it can train you to skill level of 3.

The robot isn't necessarily mobile or able to go adventuring, it may well be just a holotank on your ship.

There is another reason to employ a personal trainer or robot - the dedication roll. Fail it and you have to wait a year, a robot or personal trainer may just be able to give you the taser motivation you lack...

 

[Condottiere]

There is a theory that Mozart was a reincarnated genius.

So previous life(s) hours of practice count.

 

[Terry Mixon]

There is another reason to employ a personal trainer or robot - the dedication roll. Fail it and you have to wait a year, a robot or personal trainer may just be able to give you the taser motivation you lack...

The robot needs to be a Richard Simmons model. "You can do it!"

 

[MasterGwydion]

The robot needs to be a Richard Simmons model. "You can do it!"

I want a Bob Ross Robot Art Trainer...

 

[Arkathan]

... happy little Vargrs...

 

[CordwainerFish]

The robot needs to be a Richard Simmons model. "You can do it!"

Other models are available:

 

[swordtart]

That's not bad, either, but I wouldn't say level 0 is fully competent. In my mind, it's more familiar with the basics, and it still takes a month (with half being study). Personally, I think 40 hours of study and work to get basic familiarity works.

Level 1 is full competence, in my mind, and that takes an additional 80 hours of study and two full months (with half studying) of work.

YMMV.

MT2 Core Rule book P60 under Calling for Skill Checks states "Often, if the Travellers have the requisite skills the referee can just assume they succeed." If you don't even need to roll you are fully competent.

My take was fully competent is taking no penalty to the skill check. Remember that gaining level 0 in skill means you are a whole 3 points ahead of someone without the skill. JOT gives you basic familiarity with a range of skills. Since you can often make a skill check even without the skill, that implies some familiarity picked over your 30-40 year career (supported with your EDU bonus).

In MT2 4 years basic training gets you only 6 skills, but from that point you are fully employed and a trained professional. You might never advance that skill again in your career but it is assumed you are fully capable of using it. Your background gets you up to 6 skills that you may have practiced your whole life up to the age of 18.

We can also read across for Expert systems limitations. You need Expert /1 to even attempt a difficult task. Expert 1 equates to skill 0 if the computer is doing it itself so level 0 means you can attempt up to difficult tasks which are defined as "tough even for a trained professional".

In real terms the difference between +0 and level +1 on a skill check is far less impactful than the difference between +0 and -3. That jump from -3 to +0 therefore represents a significant jump in competence. To put this in perspective someone with level 0, with no stat bonus who takes their time (+2) on a Routine Task (trivial for a fully trained professional) would succeed 30 times out of 36, level 1 would succeed 33 times out of 36 so not much difference. A non-competent person (-3) on the other hand would succeed 15 times out of 36, less than half the time and the effect of their failure is liable to be significantly greater.

Level 1 is the point you take on specialisms which is the start on the road to mastery.

Ultimately however the words used don't really matter since skills are a bit abstract. I have level 0 as the level of most working stiffs because I want that single point you gained during that life event to be significant. I want learning of new skills at level 0 to be a time investment as otherwise you might as well start adventuring straight from school like other RPGs. Traveller was supposed to be about veterans with life experience bringing expertise to challenging situations.

Learning new stuff was supposed to take time (around the same rate of advancement as in character generation) and be hard work. You were what you were when you left the service, you were supposed to use that to make your way in the world. If you didn't have the obvious skill needed for a particular task you had to problem solve to get round it another way.

EDIT:
And on P58 under Skills and Tasks "If a Traveller has zero level in a skill (Skill 0), then they are competent in using that skill but have probably had little experience in actually using it... If a Traveller has one or more levels in a skill (Skill 1, Skill 2, and so on.) then they are trained in that skill. Each level represents several years of experience using that skill..."

I was treating competent in a specific context (e.g. "competent person scheme"), maybe Mongoose were not using that context. Not sure how you can be competent with little experience using it if you have not be trained. Sloppy wordage there Mongoose

 

[Terry Mixon]

MT2 Core Rule book P60 under Calling for Skill Checks states "Often, if the Travellers have the requisite skills the referee can just assume they succeed." If you don't even need to roll you are fully competent.

My take was fully competent is taking no penalty to the skill check. Remember that gaining level 0 in skill means you are a whole 3 points ahead of someone without the skill. JOT gives you basic familiarity with a range of skills. Since you can often make a skill check even without the skill, that implies some familiarity picked over your 30-40 year career (supported with your EDU bonus).

In MT2 4 years basic training gets you only 6 skills, but from that point you are fully employed and a trained professional. You might never advance that skill again in your career but it is assumed you are fully capable of using it. Your background gets you up to 6 skills that you may have practiced your whole life up to the age of 18.

We can also read across for Expert systems limitations. You need Expert /1 to even attempt a difficult task. Expert 1 equates to skill 0 if the computer is doing it itself so level 0 means you can attempt up to difficult tasks which are defined as "tough even for a trained professional".

In real terms the difference between +0 and level +1 on a skill check is far less impactful than the difference between +0 and -3. That jump from -3 to +0 therefore represents a significant jump in competence. To put this in perspective someone with level 0, with no stat bonus who takes their time (+2) on a Routine Task (trivial for a fully trained professional) would succeed 30 times out of 36, level 1 would succeed 33 times out of 36 so not much difference. A non-competent person (-3) on the other hand would succeed 15 times out of 36, less than half the time and the effect of their failure is liable to be significantly greater.

Level 1 is the point you take on specialisms which is the start on the road to mastery.

Ultimately however the words used don't really matter since skills are a bit abstract. I have level 0 as the level of most working stiffs because I want that single point you gained during that life event to be significant. I want learning of new skills at level 0 to be a time investment as otherwise you might as well start adventuring straight from school like other RPGs. Traveller was supposed to be about veterans with life experience bringing expertise to challenging situations.

Learning new stuff was supposed to take time (around the same rate of advancement as in character generation) and be hard work. You were what you were when you left the service, you were supposed to use that to make your way in the world. If you didn't have the obvious skill needed for a particular task you had to problem solve to get round it another way.

EDIT:
And on P58 under Skills and Tasks "If a Traveller has zero level in a skill (Skill 0), then they are competent in using that skill but have probably had little experience in actually using it... If a Traveller has one or more levels in a skill (Skill 1, Skill 2, and so on.) then they are trained in that skill. Each level represents several years of experience using that skill..."

I was treating competent in a specific context (e.g. "competent person scheme"), maybe Mongoose were not using that context. Not sure how you can be competent with little experience using it if you have not be trained. Sloppy wordage there Mongoose

Yep, it's not really well thought out, but it's what we have. Basically, everyone has to decide for themselves how to treat it. Me, I treat level 0 skills as being familiar with something but not able to get a paying job at doing it.