Bridges

phavoc

Emperor Mongoose
Something I've played with a bit, but another thread got me thinking more about IMTU...

There should be a reason for why smaller ship bridges exist, and why you need different kinds. The current model leaves, to me at least, something to be desired. Simplification is one thing, but the bigger the ship (or the more important the role of the ship) then the necessity for having a larger bridge occurs. It's also one that as you get more weapons, the bridge become less of the combat center and more kinda like the primary brain - a CIC with an entirely different crew does all the work while the captain says "go this way" or "shoot that" - the rest is the CIC. The tonnage for the below is where I think people are going to want to do it their way for the obvious reasons. I have my ideas, but am interested in hearing from others before sharing. The idea of the workstation is that it's where a crewmember sits to listen to the captain and do their bidding. I don't really count the captain as occupying one of the stations though.

Flight deck - the first of the 'bridges'. 1-2 people, It's meant for small craft, like shuttles and downward. It does the controls and sensors ok, but fighting or other non-flight related needs a separate control station added. Think a weapons if you are armed, a sensor station if you have to do dedicated electronic stuff or scanning. Otherwise the flight crew can flip a button and automation does the rest.

Compact - For small ships that don't need to do much. 4-6 stations. It's fine for the smallest of starships and all the basic functions can be done here. Combat and electronics though are limited. This is where a ship that has, say more than 4 turrets or launchers, starts getting to the point where they need a dedicated CIC to handle all the many things that a warship needs to do. Bigger survey or support vessels would need non-combat types of CIC (sensor operators for survey ships, auxillary control bridge for a ship that deals with larger numbers of small craft regularly docking with it).

Standard - The smallest that a DD-CL class ship would have, and sufficient for pretty much any civilian ship that has a singular purpose (freighter, liner, etc). Supports 12 workstations. Same rules as Compact apply (cascades for all of these).

Large - CA and BC. Supports 24 workstations. Large warfighters are going to have dedicated combat bridges who do the bulk of the work of the fighting.

Expanded - BB and up. Supports 36 workstations. Big ships have needs smaller ones don't. And it's also one of those things where the larger ship simply has more to do since it's never really alone.

Flag bridge (small) - necessary for a fleet to fight as a fleet instead of individual ships. Destroyer leaders and command cruisers and light carriers would need these. Supports extensive command and control workstations (24 total) plus a command deck/area with holotanks for leadership to observe and direct the fleet. Generally only used for 10-20 ships. Would also need additional tonnage for a separate crew (officers, ratings, separate berthing and mess facilities).

Flag bridge (standard) - Installed on CA, BC and CV classed ships. Controls up to 50 ships

Flag bridge (large) - Installed on BB, CVA classed ships. Controls up to 150 ships. Fleets bigger than this would usually have one ship with a fleet flag bridge.

Flag bridge (fleet) - Installed on the largest ships, DN/MT. Primary mission is to coordinate and liason with other fleet leaders. So the DN would have BB's and other ships underneath them controlling their own ships.

The idea for the breakdown is to differentiate the facilities and requirements for each. For some it's too much detail. Then again, if you are happy building a 250k Dton ship then part of the uniqueness of it is going to be both the how and the why of it being built like it is. What we've seen so far in modern naval designs is something similar to the above. Once radio's came about you started to see flag bridges for flotilla and fleet commanders to coordinate the battles while the ship that carried them did it's own thing (according to the flotilla/fleet commander). You also saw classes of ships that were either slightly larger to accomodate all this, or else they removed some weapons in order to squeeze it in. Pro's and con's to each.

Obviously there will be variations and exceptions. The idea though is that you see some reasoning behind the ship class itself. It's not that automation and capabilities won't be there in the future - what a 52nd century ship is capable of would be astounding. However the rules above deal more with the human side. And as we've seen in Traveller settings, they aren't any different really than we are today. And if that's the case, then we should expect them to have similar needs to do all the stuff that are done today with operations and leadership.

Anywhoo, just some scribblings that I thought I'd share.
 
Something I've played with a bit, but another thread got me thinking more about IMTU...

There should be a reason for why smaller ship bridges exist, and why you need different kinds. The current model leaves, to me at least, something to be desired. Simplification is one thing, but the bigger the ship (or the more important the role of the ship) then the necessity for having a larger bridge occurs. It's also one that as you get more weapons, the bridge become less of the combat center and more kinda like the primary brain - a CIC with an entirely different crew does all the work while the captain says "go this way" or "shoot that" - the rest is the CIC. The tonnage for the below is where I think people are going to want to do it their way for the obvious reasons. I have my ideas, but am interested in hearing from others before sharing. The idea of the workstation is that it's where a crewmember sits to listen to the captain and do their bidding. I don't really count the captain as occupying one of the stations though.

Flight deck - the first of the 'bridges'. 1-2 people, It's meant for small craft, like shuttles and downward. It does the controls and sensors ok, but fighting or other non-flight related needs a separate control station added. Think a weapons if you are armed, a sensor station if you have to do dedicated electronic stuff or scanning. Otherwise the flight crew can flip a button and automation does the rest.

Compact - For small ships that don't need to do much. 4-6 stations. It's fine for the smallest of starships and all the basic functions can be done here. Combat and electronics though are limited. This is where a ship that has, say more than 4 turrets or launchers, starts getting to the point where they need a dedicated CIC to handle all the many things that a warship needs to do. Bigger survey or support vessels would need non-combat types of CIC (sensor operators for survey ships, auxillary control bridge for a ship that deals with larger numbers of small craft regularly docking with it).

Standard - The smallest that a DD-CL class ship would have, and sufficient for pretty much any civilian ship that has a singular purpose (freighter, liner, etc). Supports 12 workstations. Same rules as Compact apply (cascades for all of these).

Large - CA and BC. Supports 24 workstations. Large warfighters are going to have dedicated combat bridges who do the bulk of the work of the fighting.

Expanded - BB and up. Supports 36 workstations. Big ships have needs smaller ones don't. And it's also one of those things where the larger ship simply has more to do since it's never really alone.

Flag bridge (small) - necessary for a fleet to fight as a fleet instead of individual ships. Destroyer leaders and command cruisers and light carriers would need these. Supports extensive command and control workstations (24 total) plus a command deck/area with holotanks for leadership to observe and direct the fleet. Generally only used for 10-20 ships. Would also need additional tonnage for a separate crew (officers, ratings, separate berthing and mess facilities).

Flag bridge (standard) - Installed on CA, BC and CV classed ships. Controls up to 50 ships

Flag bridge (large) - Installed on BB, CVA classed ships. Controls up to 150 ships. Fleets bigger than this would usually have one ship with a fleet flag bridge.

Flag bridge (fleet) - Installed on the largest ships, DN/MT. Primary mission is to coordinate and liason with other fleet leaders. So the DN would have BB's and other ships underneath them controlling their own ships.

The idea for the breakdown is to differentiate the facilities and requirements for each. For some it's too much detail. Then again, if you are happy building a 250k Dton ship then part of the uniqueness of it is going to be both the how and the why of it being built like it is. What we've seen so far in modern naval designs is something similar to the above. Once radio's came about you started to see flag bridges for flotilla and fleet commanders to coordinate the battles while the ship that carried them did it's own thing (according to the flotilla/fleet commander). You also saw classes of ships that were either slightly larger to accomodate all this, or else they removed some weapons in order to squeeze it in. Pro's and con's to each.

Obviously there will be variations and exceptions. The idea though is that you see some reasoning behind the ship class itself. It's not that automation and capabilities won't be there in the future - what a 52nd century ship is capable of would be astounding. However the rules above deal more with the human side. And as we've seen in Traveller settings, they aren't any different really than we are today. And if that's the case, then we should expect them to have similar needs to do all the stuff that are done today with operations and leadership.

Anywhoo, just some scribblings that I thought I'd share.
I love this idea!

You could even get away with a lesser bridge if some of those crew positions were filled with Virtual Crew or Virtual Gunner Software as well allowing even more customization.

I would suggest that as bridges are priced by the tonnage of the ship it is installed in, that each level of bridge have a slightly different price per ton reflecting the need for the more complex bridges to have upgraded connectivity to the rest of the ship.
 
There is the option for specialized function sub command centres.

Cost and volume the same as the equivalent small bridge, and gives you plus one modifier for that specific function, or activity.
 
Years ago I wrote about a CIC add on for LBB:2 ships.
In CT the bridge was defined as many different subsystems, Mongoose Traveller has chosen to free up hull volume by reducing bridge tonnage without considering what the CT bridge tonnage used to represent.

If the bridge is simply the maneuver control centre for the ship then it can be smaller, but then where are avionics, environmental controls, sensors and comms etc. accounted for?
 
To integrate this all the way down, how does this interface with cockpits?
A small, single operator vessel or craft doesn't need multiple control stations, but the station needs to do everything without overwhelming the operator. Before the development of AI assistants, you had to rely on pilot training and making the interface as simple and clear as possible to be functional.
Tech level makes a pretty big deal for usability and reducing fatigue and overload and yet the only nod to that we have is the addition of holographic controls at TL9 and the virtual crew software that starts at TL10.
Also, why does having a small bridge affect a small ship functionality but a cockpit doesn't? What are the break points for each type of bridge and what are the bonuses or penalties for using an over or under sized bridge for your vessel type?
 
Depends on what you plan as being canon.

Since High Guard is the latest published, you can't use a cockpit to control any hull that's larger than fifty tonnes.

There are no specialized cockpits, and we can assume no instrumentation to control and monitor the jump drive.
 
Why can't a pilot plug into the ship computer via neuralink and then have an electronically generated virtual cockpit inside their own brain...
At a certain TL, this should be easily achievable. No idea how to write the mechanics for it though. Probably should be in the Vehicles book as well as High Guard and the CSC. They already have a neural link-type thing to connect to Battle Dress. Connecting to other things shouldn't be any harder.
 
Why can't a pilot plug into the ship computer via neuralink and then have an electronically generated virtual cockpit inside their own brain...
I don't see why you couldn't do that with a Neural Comm, or a Personal HUD from your bunk. Pretty sure it would be RAW already. Let me know if anyone disagrees.
 
That depends on how often you think your pilot's headware is going to malfunction. Redundancy is always great until it makes your think inefficient and/or expensive. You "should" have a bridge and an emergency bridge and maybe an auxiliary control room :D All your SFB ships do :D

But that obviously costs money and takes up space. If you are trying to make a cybernetic connections a thing in a game system, they need to have some kind of effect. One possibility is that they provide some kind of task bonus, but that risks breaking the pretty narrow range of outcomes you get from a 2d6 system. Another possibility is that it allows savings in machinery in the vehicle, because the interfact is in the pilot's headware.

Or you could just say it's a neat special effect that only matters for flavor. Which seems to be the route for alternate control schemes in High Guard currently.
 
I love this idea!

You could even get away with a lesser bridge if some of those crew positions were filled with Virtual Crew or Virtual Gunner Software as well allowing even more customization.

I would suggest that as bridges are priced by the tonnage of the ship it is installed in, that each level of bridge have a slightly different price per ton reflecting the need for the more complex bridges to have upgraded connectivity to the rest of the ship.
Well, I suppose in theory, but when you build a ship of a type, adding in the physical locations is the way you'd get it off the production line. At some point if owner A decided to automate it then the station would go unused. And if owner W decided he wanted a human crew (AI unions and all that), the control runs, consoles and spaces would already be there. Retrofitting a ship for such things would be a bitch. Overall the tonnage and cost amortized over the life of the ship reduces it to not a lot of credits. Just makes too much sense to see them go unused rather than not installed at the start.
 
That depends on how often you think your pilot's headware is going to malfunction. Redundancy is always great until it makes your think inefficient and/or expensive. You "should" have a bridge and an emergency bridge and maybe an auxiliary control room :D All your SFB ships do :D

But that obviously costs money and takes up space. If you are trying to make a cybernetic connections a thing in a game system, they need to have some kind of effect. One possibility is that they provide some kind of task bonus, but that risks breaking the pretty narrow range of outcomes you get from a 2d6 system. Another possibility is that it allows savings in machinery in the vehicle, because the interfact is in the pilot's headware.

Or you could just say it's a neat special effect that only matters for flavor. Which seems to be the route for alternate control schemes in High Guard currently.
This is always the balance that real naval designers go through - should we? can we??. What you normally end up seeing is that smaller vessels simply don't have the luxury of space to accommodate such things - only larger ships. In real-life ships you really didn't see this until at least light cruisers or above. Even some cruisers had very bare-bones auxiliary control locations. Starships, without the need to put the bridge at the front so they can actually see, have a few more advantages in that they can locate the primary and secondary control spaces wherever they like, or spread them equally around the ship to minimize a single strike taking them out.

A flag bridge though would be a poor substitute for direct ship control since it's purpose isn't to do anything with the ship it happens to be installed in. It's for directing other ships to do things. So I'd really say that flag bridges are rather useless for this.
 
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