Coke seems to sell well enough with just red and white. And if you really want a poster to hang on the wall, buy one. I want a system I can use. Beyond telling what game it is, and keping the pages togather, I have no particular use for a cover. So classic works great for me.
Bland covers. Why?
- Thread starter BenTOGS
- Start date
Klaus Kipling
Mongoose
I think perhaps Traveller could have got away with some illustration on the cover, but it would have to have been minimal and absolutely shit-hot.
As it is the black covers are the most distinctive thing on the shelf. They shine out over the rest, which blur into a muddy textured melange of good to awful illustrations and far, far too much detailing.
If Traveller has to have an illustration, then it should not cover more than half the area, like the Spinward Marches book (though I wouldn't cry if that nasty Third Imperium logo vanished). Talking of SM, I was a tad disappointed that the image wrap on the back cover was obscured by a big nasty text box that really did not need to be that big. Any chance of getting a largish version of the pic on the website somewhere?
In fact, the graphic design on the back cover of the books is a bit of a mess, for all that it works brilliantly on the front.
As it is the black covers are the most distinctive thing on the shelf. They shine out over the rest, which blur into a muddy textured melange of good to awful illustrations and far, far too much detailing.
If Traveller has to have an illustration, then it should not cover more than half the area, like the Spinward Marches book (though I wouldn't cry if that nasty Third Imperium logo vanished). Talking of SM, I was a tad disappointed that the image wrap on the back cover was obscured by a big nasty text box that really did not need to be that big. Any chance of getting a largish version of the pic on the website somewhere?
In fact, the graphic design on the back cover of the books is a bit of a mess, for all that it works brilliantly on the front.
Clanger
Mongoose
I think that the black "old - fashioned" covers is a good move. It is product identity, that style of book is equated to Traveller.
So what if it is nostalgic for those who played Classic Traveller in the early days. It is a bold move by Mongoose to go retro with the design. It seems to work looking on a shelf full of books. The design does draw the eye. In a sea of shiney pretty colours it stands out.
Now if Mongoose brought out a Black Box version now that would rock. With that old Spinward Marches Map and the 3 basic books
So what if it is nostalgic for those who played Classic Traveller in the early days. It is a bold move by Mongoose to go retro with the design. It seems to work looking on a shelf full of books. The design does draw the eye. In a sea of shiney pretty colours it stands out.
Now if Mongoose brought out a Black Box version now that would rock. With that old Spinward Marches Map and the 3 basic books
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
MGT is a classic game returning to its classic roots. The rules are true to those classic roots while being updated in an ORIGINAL way (Timing, Effect, Attribute DM, etc).EDG said:
Except for the initial change from 1st to 2nd AD&D, Each version of D&D has been hugely different from the previous editions, the covers have been huge changes in look and style, and the logos were completely redesigned for each edition... which again makes sense since they are hugely new rule sets.
oh, and MGT is NOT WotC.... it's BETTER!
Yes, I love their covers.. I have quite a few of their adventures and first gave them a look BECAUSE of the covers.msprange said:
This month I've run the game for several different groups, some who knew what the game was and most of the players barely knew of the game. Not only did they all love the game they liked the looks of the books... "clean and different" were some of the words used.
Thanks Matt and Mongoose for taking the game "back to the future" or something like that.
msprange said:
So, Matt, what was the reasoning behind the black covers; Did MGP run any marketing studies,or go with a gut feeling (which I do respect.). Truefully, I will buy, AND Sell, Traveller in whatever form it is, but I'm mostly doing that to older gamers in a burst of nostalgia. Very few NEW players are looking at the books, in my shop, even though I gently push them toward it. I did do my first Demo at a con this last weekend and it went great, by the way, and looking forward to starting the Shop campaign.
You say this as if it is a bad thing!
(tongue firmly in cheek)
Spinward Marches and 760 Patrons turned up today as did Final Flight for CoC while at the same time I was printing out several PDF books for Traveller as well as Reign of Discordia.
Final Flight has a crashing plane on the cover, it looks like a DC-3 or 2. Interesting contrasts, no really bad covers among them but I think 760 Patrons has the best - classic, timeless Traveller with the Marches book as second with a solid piece of art of debatable cannonicity - it rather looks as if the ship has thrusters of some kind.
The Comstar Traveller ones are similar to 760 Patrons but spoiled by the white border that is a result of printing out PDFs. Reign of Discordia has a figure with a gun, not brilliant and not really saying much about the setting. Thousand Suns has a much better cover with a starscape.
Art in RPGs is something I do not really think is important. I would rather have no art rather than bad art but I still have many feet of GURPS books despite their generally poor interior art as that was simply not important. Still poor cover art will put me off a book unless I know something about it to counterbalance this.
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
I would like to charm in that I do enjoy the layout of the GT covers... A picture with a border around it, the border being black at the top fading down to a different color at the bottom... the GURPS logo on top and "Steve Jackson Games" on the bottom... A very clean layout. The artwork varies in quality but there's nothing that make me wince looking at it (I do wince slightly seeing the MGT:Spinward Marches cover, but that's already been hashed out enough on these forums).klingsor said:
I'be been playing RPGs since 1981 and have seen tons of really horrid artwork on covers (and inside) of RPG books and I still find the CT covers the best (both the solid black and the black with the single color band on top and bottom).
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
msprange said:
Just about everything in perceptual psychology (as applied to marketing or not) suggets that this is the key point; contrasting with the mass of color cover books is the best way to be noticed - which is more important than a comparative judgement of how cool the cover is. A contrast effect happens way faster than a quality judgement - and I'd guess that most customers, especially now, spend a fairly short amount of time scanning the shelves vs actually examining product. The key is to get them to pull the product, even if it stood out as ugly, and look at it.
Plus, other than first time buyers, most customers are looking for a specific brand (not just WOC ,say, but "conan" or "Dungeon" or an "elf with a big bow" as a pseudokeyword) -the easier it is to spot the brand, the more likely it gets bought.
So, as ever, even esthetics can be reduced to statistics..
Plus, I really think that simplicity of effect can be very cool and striking...lord knows we don't need ANOTHER set of cheescake/beefcake/technomosterwank covers to look at.....
And as to the influence on Traveller being the second best selling RPG - (WhooooHooo!), I'll simply note that despite common wisdom, it isn't hard to argue with success (as the internet proves) , but it is hard to do so successfully.
I voted for the classic black. With Traveller it works for me. Now don't get me wrong, I like art and I like it in color and on glossy paper and I'm happy to pay extra for the pleasure of looking at it; but art is the garnish on the dish, not the entree. There's just so much meat and potatoes, as it were, in Mongoose Traveller that the lack of "presentation" just doesn't factor for me. The game runs well and the play is fun. What more does there need to be? I think it's a good sign that we're discussing the covers on the text of the game instead of being mired in debate about the text itself.
Ok, I uncovered a vein of my classic digest sized books today, this collection goes all the way back to the begining.
Well, one of my most used books still had a price tag on it $1.95. T remember those days well, checking every day for any new traveller release at my FLGS. Then skipping lunch the next day so I could pick it up on the way home. You can't do that with todays products. Price is a big consideration for my purchases, anythin over about $10 I stop and think about. I spend much less on gaming stuff now than I did then, $40-$50 bucks for a book I might not use is an expense I can cut out.
So, anything that reduces the cost of a book is a good thing if y'all want my dollar.
Well, one of my most used books still had a price tag on it $1.95. T remember those days well, checking every day for any new traveller release at my FLGS. Then skipping lunch the next day so I could pick it up on the way home. You can't do that with todays products. Price is a big consideration for my purchases, anythin over about $10 I stop and think about. I spend much less on gaming stuff now than I did then, $40-$50 bucks for a book I might not use is an expense I can cut out.
So, anything that reduces the cost of a book is a good thing if y'all want my dollar.
Gruffty the Hiver
Mongoose
I really don't mind what is on the cover as along as I'm happy with the content.
TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
I remember having this debate with EDG before the playtests. I guess we will always have to disagree, but the plain fact is that Traveller sells well enough with the covers it has, and many fans recognise the brand, and like the style, even if a few 'don't get it'.
Me? The only thing I'd prefer is to make a pocket version of the core-rules at least - making them lbbs again.
Me? The only thing I'd prefer is to make a pocket version of the core-rules at least - making them lbbs again.
TrippyHippy said:
...which again is harkening back to "the good old days" when Traveller was a bunch of inconvenient small books.
I'm fed up with this sort of backward-looking attitude myself - how everything's got to be like it was originally. I want a version of Traveller that's fit for the 21st century, not something that's still stuck in the 1970s. I don't want black covers, I don't want LBBs, I don't want books with the same name as earlier versions - I just want a good, modern version of the game that can stand next to any other modern game.
The new Traveller is certainly modernised and updated - nowhere near as far as I'd have liked it to be, but it's still pretty decent. But the backward, nostalgic presentation of it lets it down, and I find annoying. Sure, it's selling well, but it seems to be selling to the same old crowd as any other version of Traveller, and if it's picking up anyone new then they seem to be that same generation too. I don't just want Traveller to be cool for the 30+ (or even 40+) crowd, I want Traveller to be cool for the current generation of gamers - the teens teens and the 20-somethings.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the really expensive huge glossy colour hardbacks either - but I think there are better ways to present Traveller than as a carbon-copy of the original rules that's designed to appeal solely to the old crowd who play those rules.
EDG said:
Perhaps some things are just timeless. One is not backward-looking if one
likes Shakespeare or Picasso or the movie Metropolis or the Notre Dame
cathedral, I think (sorry for those "big" examples ...
). Just try to see Traveller as a work of RPG art, something which is a truly
"classic" RPG, and only needed to have a little dust and cobwebs removed
to enter a new era.
And, at least over here, it seems the youngsters are quite interested in
the new Traveller, too.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
rust said:And, at least over here, it seems the youngsters are quite interested in
the new Traveller, too.
Here, too, according to the FLGS, and general buzz. We have a local con coming up. It'll be interesting to see how Traveller features.
rust said:Perhaps some things are just timeless. One is not backward-looking if one likes Shakespeare or Picasso or the movie Metropolis or the Notre Dame cathedral, I think (sorry for those "big" examples ...
It's one thing to look back and acknowledge the classics, it's another to make a carbon copy of them.
I mean, look at the new VW beetle and Mini cars. Sure, their shape and style is reminiscent of the originals but they're different enough to be a separate beast, and they're very different when you look inside. That's what Traveller should be like IMO.
I was quite pleased to see the new cover for the SM Book, that's a step in the right direction IMO. But I really don't want to see Mongoose churn out all the rest of the rulebooks as black covers with different coloured lines on the front. I see it as a lost opportunity to give the game a new look and bring new artists into the fold (hell, there's some people who even want the new Traveller to use the same old artists as it had before, which boggles my mind). Like I said, look at the GURPS 4e books, and HERO, and BRP if you want to see how you can still make generic system books look interesting.
Then why not just re-release the old game and be done with it? The CT reprints are already out there, if people want to harken back to the old days they can use those can't they?
And yet I bet you still use the same old boring laws of thermodynamics right? Why not just randomly change them a bit, that ought to spice things up a bit.
I just dont get why this is such a huge thing for you. And before you claim it isnt huge, if it wasnt yyou would not waste so much bandwidth on it.
I just dont get why this is such a huge thing for you. And before you claim it isnt huge, if it wasnt yyou would not waste so much bandwidth on it.
