Blacks & Women?

[Raven Blackwell]

I'm a soldier and whilst you accept the risks of your job, murder is murder, even in wartime.

So tell me- do special forces just tie people up when invading a base? I seem to recall throat slitting being a pretty standard method of 'sentry removal'.

Also most PCs aren't military- they're usually private citizens with murderous intent if you come down to it. Not to mention this is a Bronze Age- where life is cheaper than a copper really.

If you were a soldier, you should know all about LOAC, unless the US army doesn't teach it to soldiers in non combat corps?

Sailor actually- though I served on the Ship's Security Force. And no- no one metioned a LOAC which I assume as the writer of Free Companies put it, is an attempt to pretend there are civilized rules to committing bloodshed? Sorry, but I don't buy that there are any rules in conflict but survival by any and all means. I'm not getting killed for playing by someone else's rules. I can deal with the karma later. Most people [note people, not professional soldiers] aren't playing by the LOAC, so I don't either.

Of course this could be why I was reprimanded for the use of excessive force.....

Yes, your characters can slaughter hundreds of inept lvl 1 NPCs, but you musn't be sexist or racist. :roll: I think both are wrong philosophically, but they add a tremendous lack of realism into REH's world that most other writers lack the guts to attain.

Yes, but here's the difference- I don't want people dwelling on sexism/racism on my gaming table. Other GMs can do as they see fit. As GM inmy game it's my perogative[sp?] to remove anyone from my game that doesn't live up to this standard. I have 8 players and a waiting list- people who can't watch their mouth can find another GM. I get enough trash talk in the world. Don't take it to me on my time.

And personally the use of murder/pornography/racist sterotypes etc. is a writing crutch in my eyes- it simply fills in space a writer couldn't be bothered to fill in with anything original. It's just stuck in to appeal to the lowest common denominator as I've said before. Plot, characterization, intregue these thing take work- something most people find distasteful.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

If it's a slang term, used in a derogatory fasion that refers to ethnicity, it is a racist. Prejudice and racism are mutually exclusive. There are some who believe that saying "ni**er" merely acts as a description of a demographic, but we all klnow that's a load of crap.

Well honestly I think that the oppresive overclass [white males in this time period] claiming to be discriminated against is like the Nazis claiming the Jews don't respect them. Sorry guys. If you're the ones doing the oppressing- even by passive tacit approval of the status quo- then don't expect others to feel sorry for your hurt feelings.

Erm...they could ahve taken him prisoner or left him bound and gagged somewhere. Why kill him at all? Sheesh...you just proved my point and didnt'even realize it!!!! (lol) It's depraved, barbaric and uncivilized to regarg "slit his throat"as the only option; "slit his throat" versus "slit his throat and toss him into the monster infested pit"doubly so! :lol:

A captured guard can free themselves and alert his fellows to the presence of the party. A dead guard has to make a DC 25 Will save in order to make a Ghost to do so. And tossing the body in a monster-infested pit mean that it's unlikely another guard is going to stumble across it and if they do before it gets eaten they might assume the monsters killed him. In fact slitting his throat is an act of mercy.Tossing him in to be eaten alive would be more painful. Sorry the party increases it's chances of survival by killing him and disposing of the body, not by playing be 'civilized warfare'- an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

And since when is this game 'civilized'? Some of us are playing barbarians here, remember?

That's politics- the Aquilonians and Stygians are both just rival powers. They hate each other because the other has power and land that the other wants.

No, because they are different races. You dont' choose a "nationality" in this game, you pick a race. Generally, people fear and distrust because of race, not because of politics. You can see someone's race, not thier politics. They may argue and disagree because of politics, but racism, being irrational anyway, will pit one group against another regardless of political similarities simply because one person looks, eats or worships differently to another.

No when you really come down to it, it's about power and control. No matter what excuse about nationality, religion, race, sex, etc. it's about every faction/group/individual trying to aquire power over all the others and then bend them over backwards to get everything they want from them. That's human history. The rest is rationalization.

The fact is, regardless of where REHs ideas stemmed from, the game is set in a woprld where racism is rampant, but the reasons why are maleable by both the GM and the players. You want to play it up because you want your Cimmerian to learn that Southern Tribesmen are people too? Super. You want to start a down-trodden female aquilonian into a ruthless she-warrior against all odds? Go for it. But by the same token, that Cimmerian could believe the Tribesman, and indeed all ethnicities new to him, are simply men like him from the start. That aquilonian could simply be from a overbearing family who keep her from reaching her potential, to be a geat warrior, regardless of gender.

I really don't push a liberal agenda here- after all I consider pacifism and overtolerance to be a form of insanity. I just want people to drop their prejudice at the door. My table, my rules. Otherwise, hit the road. I in fact drop mine- there are important enemy and allied male NPCs in my game as well as female NPCs.

Note I'm not saying everyone or anyone has to do this for their game. I am just asserting my right to do it for mine.

The WASP and white-bread knocks and not withstanding (or being accidental), there are indirect means by which violence can be directed. Not picking, I just think that you've said the opposite in the past...reach out and touch someone lately? (hehe) :wink:

In 'touching', do you mean the violent and passionate lovemaking I had last night or the deathcurse I recently dropped on my stepfather? Both were in fact satisfying. 8)

 

[taylor]

So tell me- do special forces just tie people up when invading a base? I seem to recall throat slitting being a pretty standard method of 'sentry removal'.

Standard? In fiction maybe... the real guys concentrate on not being seen and clearing the objective, using excessive force only when absolutely needed. But they are special cases (hence the name) usually deployed on tasks that are of absolute importance.

Sailor actually- though I served on the Ship's Security Force. And no- no one metioned a LOAC which I assume as the writer of Free Companies put it, is an attempt to pretend there are civilized rules to committing bloodshed? Sorry, but I don't buy that there are any rules in conflict but survival by any and all means. I'm not getting killed for playing by someone else's rules. I can deal with the karma later. Most people [note people, not professional soldiers] aren't playing by the LOAC, so I don't either.

Of course this could be why I was reprimanded for the use of excessive force.....

Well, those who have such opinions deserve no sympathy if similar methods are used against them in my opinion. It's a very good thing for the world in general that the "western" countries don't agree with you.
Every soldier will do what it takes to survive. Most will do what is right most of the time. And petty power trips aside, LOAC does explicitly give you the right to open fire the instant you feel your life is in danger. In the australian army at least there are no warning shots or anything like that.
Sure, sometime shite happens and you have to do anything you can to survive, but having a moral compass is what seperates a soldier from a murderer or brigand.

Yes, but here's the difference- I don't want people dwelling on sexism/racism on my gaming table. Other GMs can do as they see fit. As GM inmy game it's my perogative[sp?] to remove anyone from my game that doesn't live up to this standard. I have 8 players and a waiting list- people who can't watch their mouth can find another GM. I get enough trash talk in the world. Don't take it to me on my time.

That's fair enough, but my point is that these themes are a fundamental part of the setting. But if that's not important to you it doesn't matter.

And personally the use of murder/pornography/racist sterotypes etc. is a writing crutch in my eyes- it simply fills in space a writer couldn't be bothered to fill in with anything original. It's just stuck in to appeal to the lowest common denominator as I've said before. Plot, characterization, intregue these thing take work- something most people find distasteful.

REH's writings have both. I wouldn't say Conan is racist myself, hell, he seems happy to bed every ethnic group in his world, and he breaks many of the stereotypes of his world himself. It's interesting that many of the negative stereotypes of the various races in Conan's world only apply to men though. Most of his women have far stronger characters than his men (Conan excepted).

 

[taylor]

Well honestly I think that the oppresive overclass [white males in this time period] claiming to be discriminated against is like the Nazis claiming the Jews don't respect them. Sorry guys. If you're the ones doing the oppressing- even by passive tacit approval of the status quo- then don't expect others to feel sorry for your hurt feelings.

This is the biggest bunch of tripe I have read on the internet and that is saying something. Most of us here are decent sons/husbands/fathers. Saying we are anything like Nazis is taking stereotypes to the absolute extreme. Racism, sexism, et al, goes both ways. It doesn't cancel out if you don't like the person (or group) you are directing it towards!

 

[Sir Hackalot]

Which probably should be how the characters should act like. In most cases involving differrent races and racisms the characters should usually be the exception to the rule.

 

[toothill man]

Well honestly I think that the oppresive overclass [white males in this time period] claiming to be discriminated against is like the Nazis claiming the Jews don't respect them. Sorry guys. If you're the ones doing the oppressing- even by passive tacit approval of the status quo- then don't expect others to feel sorry for your hurt feelings.


In 'touching', do you mean the violent and passionate lovemaking I had last night or the deathcurse I recently dropped on my stepfather? Both were in fact satisfying. 8)

lots there raven :shock: first I am white not a choice I made same as gender :wink: I grew up in hong kong were whites were a drop in the ocean to the other races and I also had a half jewish granny whos huge family never made it from belsen so the nazis remark to me is offensive but moving on am also a christian but only after many years trying the rest how many muslims have studied the bible like I studied the koran or the works of crowley and co I made my choice but will defend for anyone their right to choose as long as their choice will not force me into having to change my long worked out views.

is this or ravens post a flame no its a thread on conan who was a unique person one of the best written as he only had his beleifs and look what he did.reasoned respect is my mantra but that is not the world conan lived in was it 8)

 

[***BARON***]

The "overclass as the oppressor" lol. if we're talking about class then we're talking about wealth vs poverty; haves vs have nots.

rich does not = white necessarily... I count myself (white) and most of my friends (white too) among the working poor. we do not oppress anyone. my own mother was a civil rights activist in the 60s. I never saw racism until I saw it on tv... and it was even aimed at white people. we have pop culture to sustain our racist tendancies now... tv and music tells us who is "oppressing us" like it's some game, and 9/10 times not ONE PERSON can come up with an honest example of it.

so do not... do NOT go on any more about the nature of racism and oppression.

 

[Sutek]

Well honestly I think that the oppresive overclass [white males in this time period] claiming to be discriminated against is like the Nazis claiming the Jews don't respect them. Sorry guys. If you're the ones doing the oppressing- even by passive tacit approval of the status quo- then don't expect others to feel sorry for your hurt feelings.

And that's your racial prejudice right there. You don't see it that way, but it is. Hell, I've been unemployed for the last several months - I'm not any kind of "overclass" by a long shot.

Making assumptions about a person based on race is racism by deffinition.

 

[***BARON***]

I think that the oppresive overclass [white males in this time period] claiming to be discriminated against is like the Nazis claiming the Jews don't respect them.

this is flame bait.

nazis killed jews in the millions. Actually... even if all your fears about the white man were true... it still would be nothing like it.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

In my defense, I had no intention of 'flaming' as you put it. I said I am female, I have one female player and no blacks and meant to leave it at that. Sutek and Taylor's dislike of the term 'whitebread' and 'WASP' drew this out. And considering that you told me my choice of Divine Patron was absolute 'shite' Taylor, I don't want you to claim to be a champion of diversity.

As for sexism- yes I am prejudice against the demographic type that has caused me great harm. The war of the genders is a 'hot' war- after all how many women get killed/raped/abused a year by husbands, boyfriends, casual aquanitence,etc? This one's just ready to shoot back if necessary. I grant most of you are probably okay- but as I learned at an early age where a tennis instructor well liked by the community was dragged away by the FBI for being a serial killer, appearances mean nothing. The best groomed and public mannered men usually have at least one dark secret later uncovered by investigation. 8)

Well I'm done. If anyone else posts after this, I'm not going to say anything else. I had no intention of wandering off topic so this one's on Sutek and Taylor who frankly have a personal beef with as far as I can tell although why that is so I couldn't care less. Try and be sensitive of others, okay guys? :lol:

 

[Thoth Aw C'mon]

In 'touching', do you mean the violent and passionate lovemaking I had last night or the deathcurse I recently dropped on my stepfather? Both were in fact satisfying. 8)

I can't even begin to fathom the kind of personality disorder that would compel a person to post this on a Conan the RPG forum. Sheesh. You may have mixed this forum up with your Alt/weirdsex/sexstories forum you undoubtably post on. Good grief.

 

[***BARON***]

If anyone else posts after this, I'm not going to say anything else.

thank you.

 

[toothill man]

know its off topic but how is new orleans now baron and hope you and your love ones were untouched as much as possible from the storms

 

[***BARON***]

I'm currently in Baton Rouge right now and have not been back to new orleans yet since Katrina. I haven't seen my house as many have, because my neighborhood is very close to the 17th street canal and the lake... it's been flooding off and on. I think that whole lakeview area is going to be bull dozed.

I can say all of friends are fine, but as far as family goes my father... sorry Raven; my nearest convienient white oppresser... is still missing.

 

[toothill man]

if you dont mind prayers for your dad but glad the rest are okay us geeks got to stay togeather old boy 8)

 

[Sutek]

It's a damned shame that since the FEMA incompetance isn't front page news, neither is the Katrina/Rita area. I mean, the devestation is phenomenal. I have some hope that it get's up and rolling again, but I jsut can't see it happening anytime soon. There's so much to be un-done (eg. bulldozed, torn down, cleared out, laid to rest) that rebuliding just seems a daunting task.

That said, I sincerly hope everything turns out well, Baron.

 

[taylor]

And considering that you told me my choice of Divine Patron was absolute 'shite' Taylor, I don't want you to claim to be a champion of diversity.

Let's look at what I actually wrote;

As for the whole religious thing, hypocracy is hypocracy, no matter what life experiences you use as excuses for it. You accuse me of being ignorant or a bigot or whatever about your psychologically soothing man eating goddess rubbish, then shite on the most popular faith on the planet?

Not particularly nice, but not what you wrote.

As for sexism- yes I am prejudice against the demographic type that has caused me great harm.

Then I assume you are fine with skin heads and other groups who target specific ethnic groups, as long as they originally suffered at the hands of someone from the same ethnic group?

Well I'm done. If anyone else posts after this, I'm not going to say anything else. I had no intention of wandering off topic so this one's on Sutek and Taylor who frankly have a personal beef with as far as I can tell although why that is so I couldn't care less. Try and be sensitive of others, okay guys? :lol:

I'm a happy, healthy and content person with a healthy, loving adult relationship. I sincerely hope one day you are too.

 

[Oly]

Problem: Goup A have suffered sexism/racism/other abuses at the hands of group B
Theory: Sexism, racism and all similar ism's are wrong.
Conclusion: Group B can be sexist/racist/other abusives to group A.

Is it just me who spots the huge contradiction there?

How on earth are we ever going to teach people that it's wrong to think of other groups in a certain way if some people hurl insults at others and trying to excuse it as "well they did it to me first"?

If it's wrong it's wrong, end of subject.

 

[Mongoose Doghouse]

Hi All,

For a couple of reasons, this thread has now wandered off topic.

The moment the responses moved from demographical information to observations on those demographics or the Conan source material, this thread was destined to get heated (as all topics that touch on prejudice tend to). While the original premise of discussion was certainly valid, this thread has raised tempers and bordered on a flame-war at times.

I'm shutting down this thread because it has wandered off topic - and also before it can get out of hand.

Thanks for your understanding,