Shaw Coyote
Mongoose
Turim said:
I was just hoping that they would have had new spells for all the styles, instead of just a few.
More like the Scrolls of Skelos.
Big List of Official Spells
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
I was just hoping that they would have had new spells for all the styles, instead of just a few.
More like the Scrolls of Skelos.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Shaw Coyote said:
I ran out of pages to put in more spells. I also had to include stuff for
soldiers and nobles too. Scrolls of Skelos did not have to do that.
Also, I don't just make up general purpose spells just for the sake of
having more spells. The spell must have appeared in a Conan or REH
story before I will give it game stats ... OR I must have needed it for one
of my adventures.
If one of my villains needs a spell to accomplish a story related goal, then
I create the spell for him at that moment. If it works, I put it in a
Mongoose sourcebook.
But to sit around and think up spells to put into sourcebooks - I don't do
that. The spell should have a story specific reason to exist before I will
write it up (either in my story or someone else's story). I think that
approach will make sure Conan the Roleplaying Game retains its
unique magical flavour - and not devolve into the Spell-For-All-Occasions
approach DnD has become.
Magic should not be the solution to problems in Conan. It should be part
of the problem in most cases. In ALL cases, it should be an intrinsic
part of the story.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Yogah of Yag said:"Zukala's Jest: Steal a soul and turn it into a very beautiful girl."
Shouldn't it be Zukala's Chest?:wink:
Actually, the spell was inspired by an REH poem with that title (Zukala's Jest).
The gods bring Zukala a soul and he decides it will become a woman that
men will do anything, even sell their souls, to possess. Zukala thought it
would be funny that everyone would blame the girl for the ensuing chaos
her beauty would cause. "The gods must have their jest / Else Creation
held no zest."
VincentDarlage said:
I agree 100%. There should not be spells to do all sorts of mundane things, like Comprehend Languages and Find Traps -- use skills instead. Having magic spells to do all sorts of mundane things makes the magic itself mundane. Do sorcerers really need a spell to wipe their ass with... ? (Although, as Turim pointed out, you can possibly do that with Conjuring [Basic Prestidigitation])
- thulsa
I had a lot of problems with the movie and always discourage people from thinking that's what Conan is like (Turim said:
), but on the same time, viewing it as a movie and not associating it with my favorite character & world per se, I find it well-made. John Milius had a passing familiarity with the character, but he was always obsessed with vikings (his surfing name is Viking) so he took the story that Oliver Stone had written and changed it to his liking. Anyways, even though they took the names of well-known Howard characters and changed them a lot to their liking, James Earl Jones really made the movie a better movie than it would have been w/o him IMO. And hey, it took Sandahl Bergman, that fantastic dancer from "All That Jazz" and "Xanadu" and gave her a starring vechicle (unfortunatly she's a superb dancer that has been subjected do decades of schlocky fantasy films because of the success of "Conan". 
Sandahl Bergman in "All That Jazz"
Shaw Coyote
Mongoose
VincentDarlage said:
I agree with everything you just said. My only problem was when I read about it on the site it said that there were new styles, so I'm just glad I found out about that so I can wait and look thru it at a store instead of buying it on-line.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Shaw Coyote said:
What kind of style do you feel the game lacks that it is so important to you to have a new style?
Shaw Coyote
Mongoose
VincentDarlage said:
Personally, I just like having more variety, but I understand not wanting to change Howards Conan just for "fluff". I just read that there would be more styles, so I was disappointed to find out there were none.
The only suggestion I would make would be to expand the available spell lists so they aren't so linear. When I'm creating a sorcerer NPC, I find that at lower levels there just aren't that many spells available, in certain styles, to make them unique.
I am happy though, that as more books come out, more spells and feats are included. Awaiting getting my hands on Hyborias Finest.
I am happy though, that as more books come out, more spells and feats are included. Awaiting getting my hands on Hyborias Finest.
Speaking of limitations,what do you do when a scholar advances to third level, and gains an advanced spell and bonus (advanced) spell, while he is an independant , and studies the Hyponotism and Astrology spell paths ?
There are only 2 spells he can learn (Torment and Psychometry), but what happens if he blows the DC 20 independant learning rolls ? Assuming he makes the DC 10 requirement, what happens ?
Mad Dog
There are only 2 spells he can learn (Torment and Psychometry), but what happens if he blows the DC 20 independant learning rolls ? Assuming he makes the DC 10 requirement, what happens ?
Mad Dog
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
VincentDarlage said:
Hmmm.....I guess that makes me your opposite Vincent. Though I like the basic mechanics of the system I've been slowly veering away from Howard's storytelling style because it is a) too restrictive plotwise and b) slightly darker than I like. Not a lot, just a little. After all the man was a depressive suicide.
I have players who want to experiment with magic and 'Raven's Rules' sort of came into being as we started to see what we could do with it. But since I don't have to think about selling the product and don't need to meet costs or keeping up to anyone expectations I can get away with it.
I tend to think of the story being a vessel to watch players and their characters evolve from the challenges therein. I like to let them push the system and story in new directions and see what happens. Magic is just one direction it can go. If the players figure out a creative way to solve a problem with Sorcery, who am I to deny them that? 8)
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Raven Blackwell said:
That is a great way to play DnD; one of my joys of playing Conan the RPG is that I get to see players figure out creative ways to solve a problem without the crutch of sorcery.
The thing I hated most about DnD was the complete reliance of everything on the magic system. Now my players think outside of the box and are a thousand times more creative because they do not have sorcery to fall back on as a crutch. The thing I love about Conan is that it successfully solved the magic reliance issue inherent in DnD. Player Characters live and die by their skills or lack of them.
And when magic enters the equation in Conan, it usually just causes problems because it screws the natural balance - including game balance. I like that. The spells that really distance a person from humanity cause Corruption. I like that. In DnD, humanity does not matter - the game is full of half-breeds, non-human persons and whatnot. It is normal for an elf and a human to converse. In Conan, such would be unnatural, therefore horrifying to humans. A half-breed would be particularly horrifying - his parents did something unnatural.
If a half-elemental wants to "purify his elemental blood" or whatever and become a full-fledged elemental then that is pretty darn corrupt; he is talking about ending his humanity - so he would gain Corruption were I to create such a spell. In DnD, no one would blink an eye. In Conan, that inhuman thing would be treated as a monster and would horrify people. Corruption is not a measure of "evil" - it is a measure of inhumanity. Any half-breed feat or template in Conan should give a point or more of Corruption.
I think a lot of people balk at Conan's magic system because they are too accustomed to the magic-crutch DnD and similar games offer. Suddenly, they are being asked to solve problems with limited technology and little to no magic as support. I think other players may balk because Conan's magic system forces them to decide if they are human or if they are willing to become something inhuman by exerting extreme power over other humans. These players are not understanding what Conan is offering - freedom from a crutch and the power to walk proudly as person who can make his way in the world without artillery, but with only his or her skills and will power -and humanity.
Suddenly Players are asked to think harder and work harder to achieve goals that would be just a wizard or cleric spell away in DnD - including basic survival. Players must also ask themselves if they are human, or if they are they slipping away into something inhuman and distant (a non-concern in most RPGs).
I also like that Conan does not have alignments. Sorry, but most people are not good all the time, nor are they always evil or neutral. Conan explores the human condition better that most RPGs, including magic. If I were to suddenly gain The Force, for example, I probably would turn inhuman - shoot, if someone cut me off while driving, I'd probably use The Force and shove them into a ditch! Conan's magic system reflects the inhumanizing aspect of seriously powerful magic better than most RPGs. Some call that "gritty" or "dark." I call that "human."
The question in Conan is "Is the human spirit strong enough to win the day, or will it fall before the inhuman?"
The RAW magic system in Conan the Roleplaying Game facilitates that question.
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
Well, the half-elemental isn't one of my players- how his GM handles it is up to him. I agree with you consensus though Vincent- if the player wishes to do this I'd say it's just as evil as Vampiric Transformation and that I be watching yet another Sorcerer starting to bring about their destruction. I've had three do that me already and fankly I find it a little funny to see what the temptation for power can make a person do. 8) LokiOne and I discussed this- that the GM's job is to place temptation in front of players, but force them to do it. If the player takes the bait, they have no one to blame but themselves.
As for solving everything with magic- the Power Point system more or less but a limit on that. Most players don't walk around with more than 8 PP at a time and they can go fast. Knowing how to blast someone with arcane flames is great but a Sorcerer can only do it so many times before he runs dry- and Lady and Lord help you if your use of Power attracts unwanted attention for those things sensitive to it. Players have to pick and choose when to expend those precious PP and when to rely on the Nordenhiemer Beserker to thin the enemy's numbers.
I see where you are coming from Vincent- but I am a RL user of magic and without I'd find life intolerable. Heck, I'd probably be dead without it. I see it not as unnatural- but a result of spiritual evolution. After all, what is 'human'- and is it inheritantly good? I've seen to many evil mundanes to think that magic is somehow inherantly Corrupt. You choose to be good or evil and to think human blood is less 'corrupt' than any other type could be- that seems like a false premise to my ears. After all, most of my scars and wounds came from human beings- and most of the help I ever received was from Spirits. I know which I like more.
Magic isn't easy, insanity is an occupational hazard but like all forms of Power it doesn't corrupt you- it just emphasizes both the merits and flaws with a person's soul. If you Fall- you have no one to blame but yourself. But you can Rise too- it just depends on what you do with it. 8)
As for solving everything with magic- the Power Point system more or less but a limit on that. Most players don't walk around with more than 8 PP at a time and they can go fast. Knowing how to blast someone with arcane flames is great but a Sorcerer can only do it so many times before he runs dry- and Lady and Lord help you if your use of Power attracts unwanted attention for those things sensitive to it. Players have to pick and choose when to expend those precious PP and when to rely on the Nordenhiemer Beserker to thin the enemy's numbers.
I see where you are coming from Vincent- but I am a RL user of magic and without I'd find life intolerable. Heck, I'd probably be dead without it. I see it not as unnatural- but a result of spiritual evolution. After all, what is 'human'- and is it inheritantly good? I've seen to many evil mundanes to think that magic is somehow inherantly Corrupt. You choose to be good or evil and to think human blood is less 'corrupt' than any other type could be- that seems like a false premise to my ears. After all, most of my scars and wounds came from human beings- and most of the help I ever received was from Spirits. I know which I like more.
Magic isn't easy, insanity is an occupational hazard but like all forms of Power it doesn't corrupt you- it just emphasizes both the merits and flaws with a person's soul. If you Fall- you have no one to blame but yourself. But you can Rise too- it just depends on what you do with it. 8)
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Raven Blackwell said:
Right, but the game should reflect Howard's view, not the more enlightened modern view of RL practioners. The Conan game is a step backwards anyway - adding modern sensibilities to the game detracts, I think.
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
It depends on what you want. I've never felt the need to be constrained by another person's idea of what is 'right'- more following my intution and desires. REH is the starting point for me, not the end. You see I am more interested in the ideas his works stimulate in me than slavishly following his ideas from almost a century ago. As for 'modern sensibilites' I'm actually more of a primitive- I reject the 'civilized' ideas of prejudice [gender, economic class, the use of magic, etc.] and choose to follow my heart in all things. Our heads have been too f***ed with to rely on.
Hyborian Apeman
Mongoose
Turim said:
Once again, I suffer deprevity due to the fact that I am an American, and must wait patiently before I can recieve this book. Even the Vanahiemians get the books before us Americans. :wink:
Yogah of Yag
Mongoose
I just got Hyboria's Finest in the mail. Great stuff. But I'm vexed by the time it will take to get Hyboria's Fallen. It may be nice if Mongoose offer their things via instant PDF download. *HINT, HINT*
