BF:Evo MC - AoE weapons in units

Stormrider

Mongoose
I'm told this might be a better place for my question.

I'm going to try to do this point justice but I could just be being daft here.

Take for example, the British Rifleman Section. It has 2 soldiers with AG32 underslung grenade launchers which each have a 1" lethal zone. Now my question is this...

When you target as a unit, does the grenade launcher have to land on the individual soldier you targetted. There's 2 AoE weapons there, and a lot of bullets. Which do you work out first, can you put the lethal zone anywhere in the fire zone, do the 2 lethal zones have to be ontop of each other?

I suppose really I'm looking for a step by step here, because the rulebook seems to cover shooting, then it covers AoE weaponry, but not both. Would someone mind going through step by step how many dice aimed at what in what order and why for me, I just can't seem to get a grasp on this?

Many thanks in advance!
 
OK, let's say a single fire team from a british rifle section is firing on a US marine fire team. The british player decides to fire the AG36, two L85A2s, and the minimi para, which isn't prone. This gives you 4D6 basic damage dice, and 1D6+1 with lethal zone 1".

Recall that when you fire, while you're centering your fire zone on a model, you're not targetting him, every model within the fire zone (in this case a 6" radius one due to all the weapons being auto or having a lethal zone), and you roll all dice together. The easiest way to do this is to use a different coloured dice for the AG36.

going back to the example, let's say the 4D6 roll 1, 3, 5, and 6, and the AG36 rolls 4, for a total of 5. Damage dice are now assigned as per the rulebook. The 1 is discarded The nearest model gets the highest dice, so that's the 6. The next two nearest get the two 5s, with (IIRC) the attacker choosing which one is the AG36. Any models within 1" of the model assigned the AG36 dice now have a D6+1 damage dice rolled against them.
 
Or, the whole section takes a ready action and the grenadier can then lob a grenade at those dirty yank marines using the artillery trait, with impact points, inaccuracy and all that fun and games. In this case, I believe, the rest of the section do nothing, just sit there drinking tea and complaining about their crooked, rotten teeth. Correct?

Just to confuse you.
 
That's correct. There may be provision for the rest of the squad to fire directly at something else, but I'd have to reread the rulebook to be sure.
 
Stormrider and I went through the rules on fire zones in a game this afternoon. During the game, where his British Infantry were introduced to different definitions of the term "brewing up", we came to the conclusion that the British do suffer from a lack of decent AT punch. We're currently going to try dropping the "One shot" trait from the MBT LAW (other guys in the squad must have reloads), maybe increasing the points value a bit, and give the guy a rifle to hold to make him feel better while his ATGM reboots, recycles or reloads (why, oh why is a 1-shot weapon "slow", and if he's carrying a 1-shot weapon, didn't it occur to him to pick up a rifle "just in case"). Also, something occurred to me while reading through the rulebook again; the M2A2 Bradley carries 2 TOW 2 missiles in ready position in the launcher, plus 5 reloads inside the vehicle. No mention of ammunition supply there, ok? The Striker AT vehicle carries 5 Swingfire missiles in the launcher, another 5 reloads inside the vehicle, but is limited to firing only 5 in a game. Why can other ATGM's reload, but not Striker? :shock:
 
The MBT LAW can't be reloaded. It's a throw-away weapon. However, the idea of exchanging the fire team's LMG - a section organic weapon - for a LAW when each section has two LAWs as organic weapons, is somewhat foolish.

If you're going to houserule it, give the section a LAW for each fire team in addition to one of the riflemen's arms. Not the grenadier, he has enough to do already.
 
The MBT LAW can't be reloaded. It's a throw-away weapon.

Ok, bad choice of words on my part, my original point was that other members of the fire team would carry any other LAWS from the Warrior (typically carries 1-3 LAW's as extra's?), hence the idea for dropping the 1-shot idea.

However, the idea of exchanging the fire team's LMG - a section organic weapon - for a LAW when each section has two LAWs as organic weapons, is somewhat foolish.

Absolutely, especially as it is a 1-shot weapon and it replaces his only other means of expressing his frustration. My idea was to give the rifleman in each section a choice of either the L86, or the MBT LAW + L85A1.
 
What MC needs is more AT ability for infantry, so I agree with you guys. After all, if the German grenadiers in WaW carry extra panzerfausts (not one-shot), why can't the squaddies carry extra MBTs?
 
Well, a British Army section has two LAWs as standard. Just two. As the rules stand they have none, or have to bin off their LMGs to get them. That's plain wrong.

The so-called Manouevre Support Section (there is no such thing to my knowledge) doesn't have any, but it's meant to be a fire support unit. Doesn't make much sense to me.
 
Agreed. I'd even be okay with having the two one-shot's as standard, with a few point upgrade to represent carrying extras (and dropping the one-shot) for when you know you're looking for trouble.
 
Remember how big these things are. The poor sods already have a rifle, 25kg of misc kit, eight mags and a load of ammo for the LMG gunners to carry. Giving them multiple LAWs as well would just be too much.

Two one-shot LAWs as standard is both realistic and sensible. This is an infantry section, not some crazed tank-hunter squad. Leave heavy anti-armour duties to the Apache Longbow and Challenger II they brought along for fire support.
 
Okay, I did a little digging around as I really couldn't believe that a guy would be expected to drop his Minimi, pick up an MBT LAW and run into battle, fire it and then... well... make a brew?

Also from a game perspective, having troops that literally can't do anything they were intended for (riflemen... I guess he could knife someone?) grates with me.

So, my findings...

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0029.html
Here's the Rifleman and Manoeuvre Support Sections. Seems all SA80's have some form of rifle based grenade system too.

http://www2.army.mod.uk/infantry/current_equipment/the_infantry_armoured_fighting_vehicle.htm
"The vehicle is fitted with an image intensifying (II) x 8 magnification RAVEN sight and there is capacity to store 8 x LAW 80 in the back compartment." So the warrior carries upto 8 LAW's (yes, LAW 80, we're only just changing over the the MBT LAW).

Seems interesting, but them I'm not the military buff here, hell, I'm only just learning to tell the guns apart on the models lol. Though I think Rick will agree, once I get a grip on the rules of a game system I can be a nasty opponent :)
 
Lord David the Denied said:
Remember how big these things are. The poor sods already have a rifle, 25kg of misc kit, eight mags and a load of ammo for the LMG gunners to carry. Giving them multiple LAWs as well would just be too much.

I didn't mean the one man per se, it could be others in the squad handing them over to the most skilled operators. As discussed here.
 
Rabidchild wrote:

I would hazard a guess that the panzerfaust it isn't one-shot because that would involved keeping track of which units had fired theirs and which hadn't. This would bog down an otherwise fairly smooth game.

Yes - this is something we have carried over on to Modern Combat, for one-shot AT weaponry that normally has warheads distributed throughout the squad.
_________________
Matthew Sprange

AHA! Thanks Rabidchild, you have provided the very thing! Exactly what I was looking for. There now seems very little sense to keep the 1-shot trait in there. However, I do think that as the MBT LAW is a nasty piece of kit to be on the receiving end of, so by removing this trait, you'd have to increase the points by, what? About 15-20, including the rifleman's L85?

Seems all SA80's have some form of rifle based grenade system too.

Actually, Stormrider, they used to have that capability, I believe that grenadiers in the squad were issued with French "bullet-catcher" AT rifle grenades, which were dropped in favour of fitting the HK AG36 to the newer L85.
 
Rick said:
AHA! Thanks Rabidchild, you have provided the very thing! Exactly what I was looking for. There now seems very little sense to keep the 1-shot trait in there. However, I do think that as the MBT LAW is a nasty piece of kit to be on the receiving end of, so by removing this trait, you'd have to increase the points by, what? About 15-20, including the rifleman's L85?

Seems all SA80's have some form of rifle based grenade system too.

Actually, Stormrider, they used to have that capability, I believe that grenadiers in the squad were issued with French "bullet-catcher" AT rifle grenades, which were dropped in favour of fitting the HK AG36 to the newer L85.

The MBT LAW is already 45 points compared to 20 or even free in other lists (you've got the book so I can't check that). When all is said and done a hit is a hit is a hit and it's multihit makes it worth 2, except a miss is a miss. So, you could have 2 20pt AT weapons or 1 45pt AT weapon, at least the 2 20pt ones can do half damage if only 1 misses (and you've seen me roll...)

This would all be solved if you just stopped taking cheesy apcs made of solid concrete which for 15 pts more have better armour, better weapons and an AT weapon... ruddy germans :P

Oh, and... "In combat each SA80 user is also issued with two 'Bullet Catcher' rifle grenades." Not just the grenadiers, so come on, I want every L85A2 to have an AG36 :P We can leave the small bullets at home then :P
 
With your dice rolls, and the way you keep missing with the AG36's you have already got, in artillery mode, I think I'd be safer if you did just field all L85's with 'em. :lol:

On the other hand, you could always go back to using the old SA80 with rifle grenades, but each time you fire, roll 1d6; on a 6, it fires as normal, on a 5, the mechanism jams and needs 2 actions to clear, on a 3-4 a vital part of the gun comes off in your hand and it's now useless, on a 1-2 you find that the gun you were issued with is a plastic replica as the real SA80's were stolen and these put in their place! :lol:
 
Stormrider said:
Okay, I did a little digging around as I really couldn't believe that a guy would be expected to drop his Minimi, pick up an MBT LAW and run into battle, fire it and then... well... make a brew?

Also from a game perspective, having troops that literally can't do anything they were intended for (riflemen... I guess he could knife someone?) grates with me.

So, my findings...

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0029.html
Here's the Rifleman and Manoeuvre Support Sections. Seems all SA80's have some form of rifle based grenade system too.

http://www2.army.mod.uk/infantry/current_equipment/the_infantry_armoured_fighting_vehicle.htm
"The vehicle is fitted with an image intensifying (II) x 8 magnification RAVEN sight and there is capacity to store 8 x LAW 80 in the back compartment." So the warrior carries upto 8 LAW's (yes, LAW 80, we're only just changing over the the MBT LAW).

Seems interesting, but them I'm not the military buff here, hell, I'm only just learning to tell the guns apart on the models lol. Though I think Rick will agree, once I get a grip on the rules of a game system I can be a nasty opponent :)

Ah, my good and dear friend, that stuff is out of date.

Trust me when I say a British section should have two LAWs included in its cost, but no reloads for them. It's accurate, believe me. :)
 
Stormrider said:
Rick said:
AHA! Thanks Rabidchild, you have provided the very thing! Exactly what I was looking for. There now seems very little sense to keep the 1-shot trait in there. However, I do think that as the MBT LAW is a nasty piece of kit to be on the receiving end of, so by removing this trait, you'd have to increase the points by, what? About 15-20, including the rifleman's L85?

Seems all SA80's have some form of rifle based grenade system too.

Actually, Stormrider, they used to have that capability, I believe that grenadiers in the squad were issued with French "bullet-catcher" AT rifle grenades, which were dropped in favour of fitting the HK AG36 to the newer L85.

The MBT LAW is already 45 points compared to 20 or even free in other lists (you've got the book so I can't check that). When all is said and done a hit is a hit is a hit and it's multihit makes it worth 2, except a miss is a miss. So, you could have 2 20pt AT weapons or 1 45pt AT weapon, at least the 2 20pt ones can do half damage if only 1 misses (and you've seen me roll...)

The MBT LAW is 45 points when given to a support section or an SAS Patrol, but it's only 20 when given to a rifle section...
 
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