Bestiary Clarification: Vampires

[Stygian Devout]

In reading the 2e description it doesn't say anything about any particular weaknesses, especially sunlight. Is it reasonable to assume that vampires in Conan have not weakness associated with sunlight at all?

I will probably add something to that effect in my game, if only because vampires in general should be somewhat adversely affected by sunlight.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Why?

The motion picture "Nosferatu" created the idea that sunlight kills vampires. Most folkloric vampires have no particular weakness in sunlight, although most are simply stronger at night - or can only use some of their powers at night. Dracula could walk about in sunlight, for example, in Bram Stoker's novel (he was stronger at night, and had full use of his powers at night, but he could live and walk about in the day; he could change his form only at night, sunrise, sunset, and at noon).

In some folklore, vampires had to return to the grave on Saturday night to remain powerful, but could rise again Sunday night and be among the living the rest of the week - including daylight hours.

Other than the silent Nosferatu, it is likely Howard would be most familiar with vampires that did not have a particular weakness for daylight, other than that was their preferred time to sleep. Much as we can move about at night, but are likely tired and can't see as well, so too can the folkloric vampire move about in the day.

You can see that Christabel (Samual Taylor Coleridge's vampire), Lord Ruthven, Varney the Vampire, and Carmilla also could move about by day, but were more powerful by night. Although Nosferatu was the first to make sunlight deadly to the vampire, this concept really didn't take root until the 1960s, as Nosferatu was not widely available until then (although The Return of the Vampire from 1943 with Bela Lugosi also used sunlight as the method of death).

 

[Hervé]

Vincent wrote:

Most folkloric vampires have no particular weakness in sunlight, although most are simply stronger at night - or can only use some of their powers at night. Dracula could walk about in sunlight, for example, in Bram Stoker's novel (he was stronger at night, and had full use of his powers at night, but he could live and walk about in the day; he could change his form only at night, sunrise, sunset, and at noon).

This is just how I run Hyborian vampires myself, Stoker style...
Howard never mentioned the now traditional weaknesses of the vampires, although it seems to me that it's been a while since Akivasha has last seen the sun when Conan meets her in The Conqueror. It seems she lives in the darkness of her tomb palace most of the time...

 

[arderkrag]

Concur with the two replies so far. There are only a couple of sources, Nosferatu being the main one, that state that sunlight can off a Vampire, and all are apochryphal at best. I personally like the position that Vampire Hunter D and the TV series Moonlight take on sunlight and the Vampire - they can tolerate the sun, but only up to a certain point, after which they get sick. In game terms the "sunlight sickness" as it is termed in D would be something akin to:

Sunlight Sickness (Su): When exposed to sunlight, the vampire must make a Fort save DC 10 or become nauseated. For every hour past the first, the DC increases by 2. Every time a save is failed past the first, the vampire takes 1d4 points of Charisma damage. If the vampire's charisma is brought below 1 in this fashion, the vampire dies and is reduced to a pile of ash.

 

[Stygian Devout]

very interesting... thanks for the input.

 

[Sutek]

Actual vampire and lycanthrope lore most likely grew out of an epidemic of rabies that took place in central Europe about the time of Vlad the impaler. Odd conincidence, and I could be wrong about the timing, but think about the typical "weaknesses" of vamires: sensitive to sunlight, ravenous, refusal to drink or eat or even to go near running water.

Just a couple of cents to ponder...that's all...

 

[VincentDarlage]

Actual vampire and lycanthrope lore most likely grew out of an epidemic of rabies that took place in central Europe about the time of Vlad the impaler. Odd conincidence, and I could be wrong about the timing, but think about the typical "weaknesses" of vamires: sensitive to sunlight, ravenous, refusal to drink or eat or even to go near running water.

What is your source for that? According to Jan L. Perkowski (one of the foremost researchers on Slavic vampirism), the idea of the modern vampire took root in the ninth century because of a cultural confrontation in the Balkans between pre-Christian pagan, Christian, and Bogomilism beliefs. (Perkowski, Jan L., The Darkling: A Treatise on Slavic Vampirism. Columbus, OH: Slavica Publishers, 1989. 174 pp)

Many researchers attribute many of the Eastern European beliefs in vampires to have its origins in India, where it was brought to Europe by the Roma (Gypsies). (Melton, J. Gordon, The Vampire Book. Canton, MI: Visible Ink Press, 1999.) I believe Montague Summers also agreed with this view, but it has been a while since I have read his work (Vampires: His Kith and Kin and others), so I could be mistaken.

Vlad the Impaler ruled in the 15th Century, but the big Vampire Scare of Europe didn't occur until the 17th Century (the Arnold Paul incident) (Melton, J. Gordon, The Vampire Book. Canton, MI: Visible Ink Press, 1999.)

A lot of folklore vampire lore rose from problems with people not adapting to the community - vampires often were products of irregularities in community life (again, see Perkowski's research).

The rabies theory also doesn't explain the vampires of ancient peoples (Egypt, Greece, Rome, et. al.)

Our modern vampire is based on the Slavic model, but highly modified by cinema and our changing culture. In cinema, at least, vampires have moved through a malignant cycle (1931-1948), an erotic cycle (1597-1985) and a sympathetic cycle (1987 to present) (Kane, Tim. The Changing Vampire of Film and Television: A Critical Study of the Growth of a Genre. Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Company. 2006).

The running water weakness is actually unique to the novel Dracula (although Van Helsing attributes it to all vampires) and does not appear among folkloric vampires, according to Montague Summers, Paul Barber, and Perkowski.

The idea of staking a vampire predates the use of coffins, according to Paul Barber, and was a means of keeping the vampire attached to the grave (Barber, Paul. Vampires, Burial and Death: Folklore and Reality. New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 1988)

 

[Tathlum]

The running water thing may have been Stocker drawing from Irish mythology. There are evil blood drinking Sidhe that can be held back by running water.

 

[VincentDarlage]

The running water thing may have been Stoker drawing from Irish mythology. There are evil blood drinking Sidhe that can be held back by running water.

That is certainly possible. Stoker mentions that Dracula can only cross running water at the slack and height of the tide, and that dumping him (while in his coffin) in a stream will cause him to perish.

According to Montague Summers and Rennell Rodd (1892), some Greek stories indicate that vampires cannot cross salt water. In Russia and parts of Germany and Prussia, corpses of suspected vampires are thrown into rivers, which kills them, although nothing is said of one not being able to cross it. Van Helsing in Dracula says the same fate waits Dracula should someone throw him in water (Chapter 26). There are other folkloric tales about the uses of water against vampires, but none of it hinges on running water, save in Dracula and stories/movies written afterward.

IMHO, the running water issue doesn't make a lot of sense. How could the vampire move through the Romanian countryside without having to cross mountain and forest streams? Even here in Indiana, the poor vampire in the woods could find himself trapped. Plus, it gives people a really powerful weapon - a good stream of urine could give our hapless vampire a Wicked Witch of the West ending.

IIRC, one power RPG vampires rarely seem to have is the power to affect the weather, a power Stoker gives Dracula. Folkloric vampires could not do this, and most movie vampires cannot do this, but Dracula could. Of course, this could be because Dracula is a sorcerer trained at the Scholomance (Chapter 18 of Dracula).

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

Many researchers attribute the belief in vampires to have its origins in India, where it was brought to Europe in pre-Christian times by the Roma (Gypsies).

Interesting that, given that the tribal groups that were to become the Romani only left Rajasthan in the mid-11th century... one of the casualties of the great political upheaval in Northern India at that time.

Best regards

 

[Tathlum]

Stocker never went to eastern europe did he?
Maybe he didn't know much about what eastern european vampires were supposed to be like, and just filled in the gaps (powers etc) from more local mythology and folklore. Even the name Dracula sounds very like an Irish phrase for tainted blood/blood fued. While he isn't a Sidhe (Dracula isn't scared of Iron is he?) I can kinda see Sidhe aspects.

As to the part of not making sense. It didn't have to. Vampires aren't real....

 

[VincentDarlage]

Stoker never went to eastern Europe did he?

No, he didn't. He used travel guidebooks to get his descriptions.

Even the name Dracula sounds very like an Irish phrase for tainted blood/blood fued. While he isn't a Sidhe (Dracula isn't scared of Iron is he?) I can kinda see Sidhe aspects.

Well... Dracula was killed with a bowie knife through the heart and decapitated (or at least had his throat slit, the text is vague) with a kukri knife.

As to the part of not making sense. It didn't have to. Vampires aren't real....

What?!? "The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him." ~ Garrett Fort, US Screenwriter for Dracula (1931), spoken by Edward Van Sloan (as Van Helsing).

 

[VincentDarlage]

Interesting that, given that the tribal groups that were to become the Romani only left Rajasthan in the mid-11th century.

My mistake there. I wrote hastily; I should have said "Many researchers believe that Gypsies brought their beliefs from India, beliefs which likely predate Christianity." Their beliefs predate it, not the Roma diaspora, so it is not all that interesting, just sloppiness on my part in relating the mixing of Christian and non-Christian symbolism in the vampire myths and legends, which was the point I was actually trying to make, as opposed to a simple reactionary belief against rabies.

 

[Tathlum]

As to the part of not making sense. It didn't have to. Vampires aren't real....

What?!? "The strength of the vampire is that people will not believe in him." ~ Garrett Fort, US Screenwriter for Dracula (1931), spoken by Edward Van Sloan (as Van Helsing).

Oh don't worry, Abhartach, Dearg-du, Droch-fhoula, the Baobhan Sidhe are all real. Just not Vampires.....