Bester - Has to be a higher level than in in the books

[Anonymous]

Based on when a character can gain Telepathic Abilities, I figure that Bester would be a 10th Level Telepath and at least an 8th Level Psi Cop by the end of the Series.

1st Level - Telepath
Accidental Scan - Just a given because of the game
Mind Shield - Lowered to reach his lover (Ship of Tears, Season 3)
Sense Telepathy - Just a given because of the game
Warning - Just a given because of the game
2nd Level - Telepath
Communication - Used on Commander Sinclair (Mindwar)
4th Level - Telepath
Surface Scan - Used against Garibaldi (Mindwar)
6th Level - Telepath
Deep Scan - Used against Talia Winters (Mindwar)
8th Level - Telepath
Pain - Required to be a Psi Cop
10th Level - Telepath
Locate Mind - Used to find Byron (Phoenix Rising, Season 5)
2nd Level - Psi Cop
Action Block - Used against Garibaldi (Phoenix Rising, Season 5)
4th Level - Psi Cop
Danger Sense - Used when Ivanova was going to blow him away (Dust to Dust, Season 3)
6th Level - Psi Cop
Reality Fabrication - Used on Byron to project an image of himself (Phoenix Rising, Season 5)
8th Level - Psi Cop
Jamming - Used against the Rogue Telepaths (A Tragedy of Telepaths, Season 5)

There are other abilities that he should have, however he never demonstrated them in the shows. I have not read all of the books, and it bears mentioning that there are a number of additional abilities that he would also have if those are considered cannon, such as Self-Control.

A telepath should have access to any of the Telepathic abilities that do not require training in, i.e. until a Blip is trained or can create a Mind Shield, they are at - half of their P-rating to all actions.

 

[frobisher]

Action Block - Used against Garibaldi (Phoenix Rising, Season 5)

Er, nope (though he would have it, I'll give you that...) That was the Asimov that was placed in Garibaldi kicking in - Bester didn't need to do anything to get that working

The other thing to remember, is that Bester, like the other major characters, has dramatic necessity behind him. A player character won't have that

Speaking as a GM, I wouldn't raise Bester's levels, I'd just give him the "missing" abilities to play with.

 

[lastbesthope]

Someone raised a similar point about Bester's hit points in the Main Rulebook. He has more than he should. In the end on the thread we decided it was dramatic value.

LBH

 

[mthomason]

I think it's important to make the point that NPCs don't have to follow the rules. Just because a PC has to go up through various levels to get various skills, feats, and bonuses to attributes it doesn't mean the NPCs have to follow the same system. I've seen a number of posts in other threads saying that NPC X has too many HPs for their level, or too many/not enough Feats, Skills, or whatever.

NPCs can (and should) be "tweaked", heavily sometimes - for example the old king who has been a L20 Fighter may only have 5hp because he's so frail.

A great example can be found in Ultimate NPCs, in the rules for "Faceless Hordes" - it gives just the right feel for the unnamed army of bad guys who chase the hero up the stairs, only to be left as a pile of bodies after a few minutes. They work in such a fashion as to fit into the d20 combat rules while not really following them properly

Just as it can work one way, it can work the other - important NPCs don't have to follow the same rules PCs do - they can be "modelled" by the GM to do what they need to do.

 

[Aramanthus]

Although logically it makes sens that Bester is more than meets the eyes.

 

[Anonymous]

Action Block - Used against Garibaldi (Phoenix Rising, Season 5)

Er, nope (though he would have it, I'll give you that...) That was the Asimov that was placed in Garibaldi kicking in - Bester didn't need to do anything to get that working

Go back and watch the episode Phoenix Rising, Season 5:

"Bester is greeted in his quarters by Garibaldi and a charged ppg. Garibaldi demands that Bester dictate a full confession to the Babcom unit. Bester casually admits everything but declines to record it. Garibaldi threatens again with utter sincerity. Bester tells him to go ahead and shoot. Garibaldi's face shows a struggle, but he just stands there with his gun. Bester nonchalantly walks past him and sits down. "On a scale of one to ten," he questions, "How stupid do you think I am, anyway?" He procedes to explain that he has installed an "asimov" in Garibaldi's mind. Garibaldi cannot harm Bester, nor through inaction allow him to come to harm. The block is in his neural system so that he can want to kill Bester and experience his rage, but he is "blocked at the point of action." Bester mocks Garibaldi's futility some more and then leaves. Garibaldi raises his ppg again at Bester's retreating back, then destroys the Babcom unit in frustration."

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/synops/099.html

Perhaps you are thinking of the fact that Bester told Garibaldi about his personality tweaks (The Face of the Enemy, Season 4) where there is a flashback of Bester's where he gives the orders to another Psi Cop to only adjust his personality, not completely replace it.

Lyta also confirmed that Bester put the Asimov in when she scanned him.

 

[Anonymous]

The main point is lost...as usual.

The point of a RPG based on an existing storyline is so that you can play characters of the same level or more powerful than the ones in the storyline.

It is not like JMS hinted at other "Weapons" of the same level as Lyta.

The point of this being that by the time a Telepath character is half the ability of one of the NPC main characters, they are 20th level.

A Commercial Telepath should be able to do the basics before they are considered that level. It is stated too many times that they have to work hard to get to that point.

 

[Aramanthus]

Like any other character in any other RPG. You have to work to make anything more than it originally was.

 

[frobisher]

The main point is lost...as usual.

I would suggest signing up with an account here rather than making continual anonymous posts, it might improve the reception of your observations. Just a thought.

The point of a RPG based on an existing storyline is so that you can play characters of the same level or more powerful than the ones in the storyline.

No it isn't. The point is the background.

It is not like JMS hinted at other "Weapons" of the same level as Lyta.

Yup, and there's no way any PC should be playing one of those.

The point of this being that by the time a Telepath character is half the ability of one of the NPC main characters, they are 20th level.

That's somewhat of an exageration, however it is in the grand tradition of most licence based RPGs. The major NPCs are next to impossible to equal on the playing field presented to the players. These NPCs are assigned stats so that they perform as portrayed. If a GM wants characters to conform to such ideals, that's fine - "GM rewards" are easily made, but if "better" characters, fighting the same fight, are around, how come we didn't hear their story? I wouldn't want a rogue who could eat Bester for breakfast - what do I have to fear then, apart from other player characters? I also really don't want stats for Vorlons and Shadows, because as soon as you have them, PC's start thinking "Oh, that's how you take them down... Saddle up boys, we're a going hunting Ancients!!!"

A Commercial Telepath should be able to do the basics before they are considered that level. It is stated too many times that they have to work hard to get to that point.

The obvious solution, which has been posited many times is that you just start the characters in the campaign at a higher level.

 

[scottmage]

The main point is lost...as usual.

I would suggest signing up with an account here rather than making continual anonymous posts, it might improve the reception of your observations. Just a thought.

Not that it should matter whether someone has an account or not. I don't remember there being that requirement...else you should have to log in to make a comment. There are those Threads out there that require that you know...or maybe you don't....

 

[Barbara]

The main point is the role playing. Not how powerful your character is. Your character is not central to shaping the galaxy and history as the main characters are.
In the main book Bester is T9/PC6?, by the No Surrender, No Retreat he is T9/PC9?

 

[EricRoss]

The main point is lost...as usual.

It is not like JMS hinted at other "Weapons" of the same level as Lyta.

Yup, and there's no way any PC should be playing one of those.

The obvious solution, which has been posited many times is that you just start the characters in the campaign at a higher level.

in reguards to the "Weapons". one can play one. just make a high-power Minbari telepath (P9-P12) if you have a good roll on the d4 you could start with a P11-P12, then select the Minbari sub-race known as The Kira Zhe which takes away the Great Fortitude bonus feat and replaces it with Improved Initiative; it also give you +2 inherent bonus on all Telepathy checks and makes all Abilities function as if the Telepath is two P-rating points higher then they are (which effectively lets you play up to P14) making only the P15 Vorlons more powerful. Add to that the 'Small Crest' feat that gives a Minbari telepath +1 to their P-rating and one could play a true P13 (effectively P15), watch out Bester. Here is an example of what this would look like at first level:

Ardenn
Level 1 Minbari [Kira Zhe] Telepath (P13 [P15])
Hit Points: 6 Initiative: 8 Speed: 30 DV: 12 DR: 0
Attacks: Melee: +1, Ranged: +2
Abilities: Str: 12, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 14, Wis: 12, Cha: 12
Saves: Fort: 1, Ref: 2, Will: 3
Skills: Computer Use (4), Concentration (5), Diplomacy (4), Knowledge (Religion) (5), Knowledge (Telepathy) (6), Telepathy (7)
Weapons: pistol
Feats & SQ: Improved Initiative, Accidental Scan, Small Crest, Mind Shield, Religious Caste (Knowledge - Religion), Sense Telepathy, Warning

 

[scottmage]

The main point is the role playing. Not how powerful your character is. Your character is not central to shaping the galaxy and history as the main characters are.
In the main book Bester is T9/PC6?, by the No Surrender, No Retreat he is T9/PC9?

True about the role playing.

It is not so much about power either...it is about capability, what can a character do?

I know how high I can jump in real life or how many targets I can hit on a range (38 out of 40 is my average), etc. I just want to know what my characters are capable of, and if they can never reach their potential, (P8 for instance...not really that powerful...) then there is a problem with the system.

I understand wanting to limit the power of a starting character, however, if the character's Telepathy skill rating is only a 4 or 5, many of the higher DC abilities are outside of the character's range. On the other hand, everyone gets lucky once in a while

While our characters may not be central to saving the Galaxy, maybe our characters are ones that will keep the central characters alive....

In the case of the P8, with 16 Telepathic Abilities to choose from (aside from the begining ones), the character would have to be 32nd Level to be able to do them all....

There are still other Telepathic Abilities that have not been covered since they are only putting them in the books as they show up in a Season or Movie. Example Thirdspace mentions that a P9 can detect Electronics....

 

[frobisher]

in reguards to the "Weapons". one can play one. just make a high-power Minbari telepath (P9-P12) if you have a good roll on the d4 you could start with a P11-P12, then select the Minbari sub-race known as The Kira Zhe...

That doesn't actually make you a "weapon" character though, just a high P rated telepath - Lyta is sooo much more than that.

 

[frobisher]

6th Level - Psi Cop
Reality Fabrication - Used on Byron to project an image of himself (Phoenix Rising, Season 5)

Also, he doesn't need this one, in fact "Reality Fabrication" was unsuitable for the task in hand.

It's Communication (Glyph, Confuse) It's a suprisingly flexible combo that one.

 

[scottmage]

in reguards to the "Weapons". one can play one. just make a high-power Minbari telepath (P9-P12) if you have a good roll on the d4 you could start with a P11-P12, then select the Minbari sub-race known as The Kira Zhe...

That doesn't actually make you a "weapon" character though, just a high P rated telepath - Lyta is sooo much more than that.

Sounds like you have not read The Minbari Federation Fact Book and how the Vorlons engineered the first Minbari Telepaths as weapons against the Shadows.... I guess that would not count.

I think that part of the reason why the Vorlons picked humans to be Telepaths is because of their potential (see Mindwar & The Deconstruction of Falling Stars as to Human potential).

The Minbari are the same. That is why there is Human DNA in the Minbari gene pool and with Delenn becoming a hybrid, perhaps Minbari DNA will become part of the Human gene pool (maybe that is how Humans become Energy beings 1,000,000 years in the future)...?

Part of the Psi Rating scale is not how many blocks that a Telepath can get through, but the abilities of the Telepath. In Thirdspace when the Command staff is watching Lyta in the Medlab and she looks at the second "hidden" camera, and Dr. Elizabeth Trent mentions that only a P9+ can detect Electronics (see also The Psi Corps p. 22). The Feat Synergy could simulate the ability to break through higher level blocks (see The Psi Corps p. 22) if a Blip was discovered after they have reached 10th level, however they could not perform some of the Telepathic Abilities associated with that P-rating.

I am really, really good at getting into a computer if I have physical access to it, however I would have difficulty getting into a computer remotely if I did not have the Admin rights that I do at my job. The same holds true of a Telepath. Some Telepaths have a lower P-rating and need physical access to the person that they are scanning and others can do it from a distance.

"The amount of contact required varies according to the telepath's
strength. Lyta at P5 needs a little help. A P10 could nail you from across
the room." JMS http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/000.html

However when you look at the rules, a P10 that is 20th Level could be resisted by a 1st Level Diplomat that has an 18 Wisdom, Iron Will and Resist Scan, if they rolled a 20 on their Will roll. Of course according to the D20 rules, a 20 on any roll always succeeds. By 4th Level, a Diplomat could even start resisting a Psi Cop.

 

[frobisher]

Sounds like you have not read The Minbari Federation Fact Book and how the Vorlons engineered the first Minbari Telepaths as weapons against the Shadows.... I guess that would not count.

It doesn't. All telepaths were created as "weapons" in that regard, Lyta is much, much more than that.

However when you look at the rules, a P10 that is 20th Level could be resisted by a 1st Level Diplomat that has an 18 Wisdom, Iron Will and Resist Scan, if they rolled a 20 on their Will roll.

Quite honestly I'd expect to be able to do that, with that package (only a 20 though..?)

By 4th Level, a Diplomat could even start resisting a Psi Cop.

That's fine - they should be able to.

The underlying "problem" is the d20 system and how it handles experience and ability (with a close linking of the two) and hence it won't map to every particular combo as some might expect. There is also an element of the fact of adding the P rating as a modifier across a liner probability (the d20 range) where as it's not a linear scaling (in the B5 universe).

 

[Barbara]

So why should the 4th level Diplomat be able to resist the Psi Cop?
Under the description of telepaths in the main book, it has the comments about most mundanes having a problem resisting any ability.

The other main question I've got is on resisting Surface Scan(or anything else for that matter). If the telepath does give away any information that they have gotten from the target, how does the target know to resist. ok, with deep scan it's kind of hard to miss that it's being done but surface scan and accidental scan are not felt. Resistance is not an automatic action, it's something you have to concentrate on.

 

[frobisher]

So why should the 4th level Diplomat be able to resist the Psi Cop?
Under the description of telepaths in the main book, it has the comments about most mundanes having a problem resisting any ability.

He/She isn't most mundanes.

Most mundanes are level 1 at best, plus said diplomat, in this case has been generated to be able to resist telepathy (18 Wisdom, Iron Will and Resist Scan).

If I had Resist Scan I'd at least be expecting that Feat to actually do what it says in its description...

 

[Aramanthus]

I think that is probably the way it was done with the rules.