Battlestar Galactica 3.0

[Tom Kalbfus]

"What are they, steam powered?"

From the description, close. No energy weapons just small caliber belt fed autocannons and high caliber ship's guns loaded manually and sighted with help from low level computers more akin to the 1960s. By not networked, I assume it was all this level with each control system minimally assisted with unsophisticated computation devices that are unhackable. Makes me wonder how uncomplex the FTL drive is or are there huge numbers of calculating machines doing very specific tasks towards a single goal? Babbage Machine anyone?

Not having lasers or energy weapons doesn't mean they were using archaic tech. They quite clearly had advanced computer systems (you only have to look at C&C for that). They were probably the equivalent of using 1980s-1990s tech compared with modern technology.

Traveller RPG is a bit archaic in its own way, it is a view of the future as seen from the 1970s, and laser weapons were in vogue back then, you ever see Space 1999?
A realistic future would have AI in it, but the classic science fiction, which is what Traveller is all about, has humans doing important tasks, not machines doing everything. A human-cylon war gives an excuse for not having machines doing everything on one side of the war at least.

 

[Condottiere]

The design of the Galactica harks back to a more paranoid era; modern battlestars and fighters might be more orientated towards computer simulation training.

 

[Reynard]

Hmm, lasers, which do exist and are being weaponized today, are unrealistic while ships including tiny fighters flying a very high relavistic velocities plus human androids are no issue.

The point right now is the people then and now who write the stories show very little consistency or even a smattering of science knowledge. That gives us a venue for a bit of observational humor. While I'm chuckling, I will keep trying to sort through the mess and come up with something 'sensible' enough to be Traveller Battlestar. Right now, Mongoose Traveller doesn't have ship scale kinetic energy weapons or maneuver drives in the tens of Gs.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Hmm, lasers, which do exist and are being weaponized today, are unrealistic while ships including tiny fighters flying a very high relavistic velocities plus human androids are no issue.

The point right now is the people then and now who write the stories show very little consistency or even a smattering of science knowledge. That gives us a venue for a bit of observational humor. While I'm chuckling, I will keep trying to sort through the mess and come up with something 'sensible' enough to be Traveller Battlestar. Right now, Mongoose Traveller doesn't have ship scale kinetic energy weapons or maneuver drives in the tens of Gs.

Why need it have maneuver drives in the tens of gees? I think maneuver drives 1-6 will get you there in a reasonable time.

This is what a maneuver-2 can do:
Distance 20 m/s^2 seconds velocity km/sec distance
0 16.667 minute 1000.02 20000.4 20.00 10,000 km
1 52.7045 minute 3162.27 63245.4 63.25 100,000 km
2 1.75682 hours 6324.552 126491.04 126.49 400,000 km
3 3.000 hours 10800 216000 216.00 0.01 au
4 11.00 hours 39600 792000 792.00 0.10 au
5 17.00 hours 61200 1224000 1,224.00 0.25 au
6 24.00 hours 86400 1728000 1,728.00 0.50 au
7 29.50 hours 106200 2124000 2,124.00 0.75 au
8 34.00 hours 122400 2448000 2,448.00 1.00 au
9 1.735 days_ 149904 2998080 2,998.08 1.50 au
A 2.005 days_ 173232 3464640 3,464.64 2.00 au
B 2.240 days_ 193536 3870720 3,870.72 2.50 au
C 2.455 days_ 212112 4242240 4,242.24 3.00 au
D 2.653 days_ 229219.2 4584384 4,584.38 3.50 au
E 2.835 days_ 244944 4898880 4,898.88 4.00 au
F 3.006 days_ 259718.4 5194368 5,194.37 4.50 au
G 3.170 days_ 273888 5477760 5,477.76 5.00 au
H 3.473 days_ 300067.2 6001344 6,001.34 6.00 au
J 3.750 days_ 324000 6480000 6,480.00 7.00 au
K 4.010 days_ 346464 6929280 6,929.28 8.00 au
L 4.253 days_ 367459.2 7349184 7,349.18 9.00 au
M 4.483 days_ 387331.2 7746624 7,746.62 10.00 au
N 5.012 days_ 433036.8 8660736 8,660.74 12.50 au
P 5.490 days_ 474336 9486720 9,486.72 15.00 au
Q 5.930 days_ 512352 10247040 10,247.04 17.50 au
R 6.340 days_ 547776 10955520 10,955.52 20.00 au
S 7.087 days_ 612316.8 12246336 12,246.34 25.00 au
T 7.764 days_ 670809.6 13416192 13,416.19 30.00 au
U 8.386 days_ 724550.4 14491008 14,491.01 35.00 au
V 8.965 days_ 774576 15491520 15,491.52 40.00 au
W 10.023 days_ 865987.2 17319744 17,319.74 50.00 au
X 10.98 days_ 948672 18973440 18,973.44 60.00 au
Y 11.86 days_ 1024704 20494080 20,494.08 70.00 au

At two gees, a spaceship can travel 70 astronomical units in 11.86 days, at the end of this acceleration phase the spaceship would be traveling at 20,494.08 kilometers per second, that is about 0.07% of the speed of light! I don't remember any episode which described how fast the vipers could accelerate, perhaps they accelerated faster in their launch tubes.

 

[Reynard]

The one source, that other BG sites refer to, states the Galactica moves at 0.2 light speed (yeah, go calculate the Gs!) and cites remarks in the show how both it and the Vipers can reach light speed to which even they say is ridiculous. They also list in the Viper specs an acceleration of 7.5gs normal and 11.25gs turbo while the Raider has an acceleration of 4.7gs. These are possible in the Traveller High guard performance table. Non-small craft are still limited to a maximum 6gs. If the Basestar and Battlestar are so fast then pack in the largest maneuver drive possible or assume they're pondering behemoths with low Gs.

 

[sideranautae]

The one source, that other BG sites refer to, states the Galactica moves at 0.2 light speed (yeah, go calculate the Gs!)

Impossible to do unless given the time from zero velocity to .2c

and cites remarks in the show how both it and the Vipers can reach light speed to which even they say is ridiculous. They also list in the Viper specs an acceleration of 7.5gs normal and 11.25gs turbo while the Raider has an acceleration of 4.7gs.

Even using Turbo it would take a Viper well over a month to reach light speed.

These are possible in the Traveller High guard performance table. Non-small craft are still limited to a maximum 6gs. If the Basestar and Battlestar are so fast then pack in the largest maneuver drive possible or assume they're pondering behemoths with low Gs.

At 6G's it would take "behemoths" over 11 days to reach 0.2 c. And that long to stop of course...

 

[AndrewW]

Right now, Mongoose Traveller doesn't have ship scale kinetic energy weapons or maneuver drives in the tens of Gs.

Check Adventure 3: Trillion Credit Squadron (page: 21) for a spinal mount railgun...

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

The one source, that other BG sites refer to, states the Galactica moves at 0.2 light speed (yeah, go calculate the Gs!) and cites remarks in the show how both it and the Vipers can reach light speed to which even they say is ridiculous. They also list in the Viper specs an acceleration of 7.5gs normal and 11.25gs turbo while the Raider has an acceleration of 4.7gs. These are possible in the Traveller High guard performance table. Non-small craft are still limited to a maximum 6gs. If the Basestar and Battlestar are so fast then pack in the largest maneuver drive possible or assume they're pondering behemoths with low Gs.

What sources and which Galactica, the original television series? That Galactica could travel between the Galaxies as I recall, I wouldn't take the stats of the original Galactica with Dirk Benedict playing Starbuck, all too seriously. For the reimagined Galactica, I'd say short bursts of 7.5gs would be reasonable this wouldn't be done with the normal maneuver drive however, which can go from 1 to 6-Gs only, perhaps a chemical rocket would fire up to give additional bursts of acceleration in addition to that provided by the maneuver drive. I'm sure the Galactica can reach 2% of the speed of light. 20% is rather iffy assuming they use fusion power plant, anyway it has a jump drive so it doesn't need to go at 20% of the speed of light. To go to 20% of the speed of light, the Galactica would have to be mostly fuel. in any case 20% of the speed of light can be reached by accelerating at 1-G or less assuming it does so for long enough. As a rule of thumb it takes almost a year to reach near light speeds when accelerating at 1-G, without doing the calculation, I would reaching 20% of the speed of light would take around a under a fifth of a year or about 2 months of acceleration. I find BSG more like Traveller than Star Trek, so I can't imagine it reaching 0.2 light speed in a few minutes, too much rubber science in that, and its not essential to the setting to retain that capability. BSG is a slower than light starship with the exception of the times it uses its FTL drive, and in the series its instantaneous, in Traveller the Jump Drive is not instantaneous. As a possible option we could say that the occupants of the starships are frozen in time when in Jump space and the ship just emerges 5-9 days later in an instant of time as far as the ship's crew is concerned, or we can have them wait it out in Jump Space. Also this variation in travel time might make it difficult for the entire fleet to arrive together, so it might be better to use a teleport drive, but one restricted to operations further than 100 diameters from the nearest planet.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

The one source, that other BG sites refer to, states the Galactica moves at 0.2 light speed (yeah, go calculate the Gs!)

Impossible to do unless given the time from zero velocity to .2c

and cites remarks in the show how both it and the Vipers can reach light speed to which even they say is ridiculous. They also list in the Viper specs an acceleration of 7.5gs normal and 11.25gs turbo while the Raider has an acceleration of 4.7gs.

Even using Turbo it would take a Viper well over a month to reach light speed.

These are possible in the Traveller High guard performance table. Non-small craft are still limited to a maximum 6gs. If the Basestar and Battlestar are so fast then pack in the largest maneuver drive possible or assume they're pondering behemoths with low Gs.

At 6G's it would take "behemoths" over 11 days to reach 0.2 c. And that long to stop of course...

Vipers don't reach light speed, they are sublight craft, if they could do that, there would be no reason to transport them in a Battlestar. Technically you can't each light speed by accelerating as that would take an infinite amount of fuel, The FTL drive skips over that, so it doesn't go light speed either. Only light and radiation can go at light speed.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Right now, Mongoose Traveller doesn't have ship scale kinetic energy weapons or maneuver drives in the tens of Gs.

Check Adventure 3: Trillion Credit Squadron (page: 21) for a spinal mount railgun...

the SG needs at least one spinal mount weapons, rather than it just being a platform for guns and missiles. the two landing decks are only a small part of the craft, what is the central portion for? There must be something it could be used for.

 

[sideranautae]

The FTL drive skips over that, so it doesn't go light speed either. Only light and radiation can go at light speed.

You can't "skip over" a velocity on the way to a higher velocity.

 

[Wil Mireu]

This may be of some use:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheBattlestar

 

[sideranautae]

This may be of some use:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheBattlestar

Thanks Wil

 

[Wil Mireu]

There's an awful lot of waffle and over-thinking in this thread .

Battlestars can't accelerate very fast - we never saw anyone pinned in their chairs during the series (maybe they have inertial compensators, but that seems a bit too 'magical tech' for them). I'd suspect that a battlestar probably can't really accelerate faster than 1g - they don't need to though because they can jump in pretty close to their targets (see e.g. the attack on the Colony at the end of nBSG).

As for their jump drive - it doesn't really matter how it works, it's just a 'jump drive'. They need Tyllium for it, and they need time to 'spool up the drive'. The series also shows that they can tell other ships what the target jump coordinates are and can expect those ships to arrive there pretty accurately (there's much less of this messy 'spread in time and space' that Traveller does with fleet arrivals).

Vipers and Colonial Shuttles are not jump-capable, but Raptors are jump-capable. Cylon Raiders (normal and Heavy) are both jump-capable, and have longer range than Colonial drives. The Distance limitation for Drives seems to be largely down to computational difficulty - cylon computers are better, so they have the longer range.

The old series should not be used for tech assumptions. Battlestars can't 'jump between galaxies' - that's just 1970s scriptwriters not knowing the difference between galaxies and star systems.

Work from that and stop overthinking it .

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

There's an awful lot of waffle and over-thinking in this thread .

Battlestars can't accelerate very fast - we never saw anyone pinned in their chairs during the series (maybe they have inertial compensators, but that seems a bit too 'magical tech' for them). I'd suspect that a battlestar probably can't really accelerate faster than 1g - they don't need to though because they can jump in pretty close to their targets (see e.g. the attack on the Colony at the end of nBSG).

As for their jump drive - it doesn't really matter how it works, it's just a 'jump drive'. They need Tyllium for it, and they need time to 'spool up the drive'. The series also shows that they can tell other ships what the target jump coordinates are and can expect those ships to arrive there pretty accurately (there's much less of this messy 'spread in time and space' that Traveller does with fleet arrivals).

Tyllium seems to be used both for the drives and for the vipers which were not jump capable,so it is basically a source of energy. Traveller uses hydrogen for its jump drives, no reason why we couldn't use hydrogen. Tyllium was only essential for one episode. The main thing is hydrogen is the commonest element in the Universe, they wanted something that was more like oil so the proper 20th century OPEC analogs can be made up, by hydrogen works just as well as a fuel, so long as we don't have spaceships that can travel up to significant fractions of the speed of light, hydrogen fusion works just fine, why not stick with that?

Vipers and Colonial Shuttles are not jump-capable, but Raptors are jump-capable. Cylon Raiders (normal and Heavy) are both jump-capable, and have longer range than Colonial drives. The Distance limitation for Drives seems to be largely down to computational difficulty - cylon computers are better, so they have the longer range.

The old series should not be used for tech assumptions. Battlestars can't 'jump between galaxies' - that's just 1970s scriptwriters not knowing the difference between galaxies and star systems.

Work from that and stop overthinking it .

 

[AndrewW]

Original series:

The Galactica was pushed to light speed in Experiment in Terra.

In Fire in Space they had to set off the charges placed on the hull in a prescribed pattern so the Galactica could compensate properly.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Original series:

The Galactica was pushed to light speed in Experiment in Terra.

In Fire in Space they had to set off the charges placed on the hull in a prescribed pattern so the Galactica could compensate properly.

They assumed a less educated audience for the first series. A light speed drive wouldn't be very good, as it would travel only at light speed and take years just to get to the nearest star, but I guess the people who wrote the scripts didn't know that.

 

[AndrewW]

They assumed a less educated audience for the first series. A light speed drive wouldn't be very good, as it would travel only at light speed and take years just to get to the nearest star, but I guess the people who wrote the scripts didn't know that.

Aye, didn't say it would work. Just wanted to mention it.

 

[Wil Mireu]

Tyllium seems to be used both for the drives and for the vipers which were not jump capable,so it is basically a source of energy. Traveller uses hydrogen for its jump drives, no reason why we couldn't use hydrogen. Tyllium was only essential for one episode. The main thing is hydrogen is the commonest element in the Universe, they wanted something that was more like oil so the proper 20th century OPEC analogs can be made up, by hydrogen works just as well as a fuel, so long as we don't have spaceships that can travel up to significant fractions of the speed of light, hydrogen fusion works just fine, why not stick with that?

Because it's not like hydrogen? They don't need to stop and refuel after every jump - Tylium reserves will apparently run a ship for a LONG time. Plus, it seems to be mined from asteroids rather than planets.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Tylium

 

[AndrewW]

Because it's not like hydrogen? They don't need to stop and refuel after every jump - Tylium reserves will apparently run a ship for a LONG time. Plus, it seems to be mined from asteroids rather than planets.

Well, the largest tylium mine that was found (original series) wasn't an asteroid, it ended up blowing up the planet...