Battle Dress

[Maedhros]

One of my players up and bought Battle Dress.

My conception of Battle Dress conforms to the powered armor featured in Starship Troopers and Forever War. I told the player that using Battle Dress in the cramped confines of a spacecraft would probably lead to some penalties, and this prompted some protestation. I would imagine that wide, open corridors (a la Star Trek) in a spacecraft would be the very, very rare exception given that displacement is a precious commodity. Standard passageways would be as narrow as feasibly possible in order to conserve space (and mass).

How has this been approached by others?

 

[Emperor Herdan]

In the Main Book of MGT theres a line drawing of 2 people with weapons behind someone in BD... Show them that image (smile).

I agree with your thoughts. We're not talking Star Trek or Star Wars sized corridors, we're talking Traveller. Maybe on those Capital ships there are wide corridors, but not on those smaller tramp freighters/ships (IMO anything less then 5K dt).

You can get 1 BD in a corridor, but it'll be a bulky squeeze around corners...

Take care

E. Herdan

 

[hhawk]

You can get 1 BD in a corridor, but it'll be a bulky squeeze around corners...

Maybe he can live in the cargo hold ;-p

 

[rust]

The military ships in my setting are designed in a way that Marines in
Battledress can easily move from the "Morgue" (where their Battledres-
ses are stored) to the small craft or the airlock, but not to the bridge or
any other vital area of the ship - a defensive measure to protect the Na-
vy personnel from enemy boarders in Battledress (or mutineers ...).

Civilian ships, perhaps with the exception of luxury cruise ships and si-
milar ships, have corridors that are too narrow (or at least have several
"bottlenecks") for someone in Battledress, partly to safe space for other
and more important rooms of the ship, but partly also as a defensive mea-
sure to protect the crew from having to fight boarders in Battledress.

So, in my setting Battledress is used in combats on planets and - rarely -
in space, but never on ships.
Besides, in my setting a civilian would find it nearly impossible to buy a
Battledress, and authorities almost everywhere would react very badly
to someone who attempted to bring a Battledress into their starport or
onto their planet.

 

[Maedhros]

So, in my setting Battledress is used in combats on planets and - rarely -
in space, but never on ships.

That's my thought.

Besides, in my setting a civilian would find it nearly impossible to buy a
Battledress, and authorities almost everywhere would react very badly
to someone who attempted to bring a Battledress into their starport or
onto their planet.

The character in question is a former Marine who then went into the Navy and mustered out as a Captain. I figured his contacts would allow him to purchase BD, since it is listed in the book with a purchase price. I don't like to be the GM that always says "No" to what the characters do. However, as you point out, there are some down sides to actually using BD (and a Plasma Gun), such as legal entanglements and response-in-kind. The players collectively intend to keep the BD in its locker for that ONE emergency when they need it.

 

[rust]

The players collectively intend to keep the BD in its locker for that ONE emergency when they need it.

Even in this case customs officials who discover the Battledress during
an inspection of the ship would most probably give a warning to the lo-
cal law enforcement authorities, which could create all kind of trouble
on any planet with a moderate to high law level.

If one purchases a Battledress, the trouble is always included for free. :twisted:

 

[Infojunky]

One of my players up and bought Battle Dress.

My conception of Battle Dress conforms to the powered armor featured in Starship Troopers and Forever War.

Looking at the TMB and Mercenary for "Artillery" Battledress write ups I find what is described as heavy combat armor. The masses given alone are no where near what is described in the books you cite.

Going back to CT I find that Battledress and Combat armor provide the same level of protection.

So neither the source materal or the current support the MI style of suit.

I told the player that using Battle Dress in the cramped confines of a spacecraft would probably lead to some penalties, and this prompted some protestation. I would imagine that wide, open corridors (a la Star Trek) in a spacecraft would be the very, very rare exception given that displacement is a precious commodity. Standard passageways would be as narrow as feasibly possible in order to conserve space (and mass).

Having been under combat conditions inside of a ship any armor can be a pain in the ass, as can any rifle.

The player in question bought a FGMP to go with the battledress, Yes?

Well just let him let off with that in a tight corridor, see how fast he fries himself. He is firing the equivalent of a light field gun in a tight, enclosed, sealed space.

How has this been approached by others?

I generally point out if they want to fight military actions I will supply them with such. If group gets the Rep of using high fire power solutions, that is what their opposition will use.

 

[Maedhros]

The players collectively intend to keep the BD in its locker for that ONE emergency when they need it.

Even in this case customs officials who discover the Battledress during
an inspection of the ship would most probably give a warning to the lo-
cal law enforcement authorities, which could create all kind of trouble
on any planet with a moderate to high law level.

If one purchases a Battledress, the trouble is always included for free. :twisted:

Oh, it's worse than that. An enemy of one of the PCs (not the BD owner) is a high-level Corporate type, and has falsified reports and paid off a free trader to implicate the character's Ship's Boat in an act of piracy. The PCs are currently en route to the sub-sector capital to retrieve the boat, where it is waiting in berth and (unknown to them) under impound by the Imperial Navy. When they show up to claim it, an arrest warrant will be presented to the wanted character and I imagine a search of the scout ship will follow. When the BD and heavy weaponry turns up...well, it will add complications.

 

[Maedhros]

Looking at the TMB and Mercenary for "Artillery" Battledress write ups I find what is described as heavy combat armor. The masses given alone are no where near what is described in the books you cite.

Fair enough. I didn't pay much attention to the masses, although the descriptions seemed to match MI pretty closely (augmented strength and reflexes, jump capable, Ground Assault Marines "dropped from high orbit to attack planet".)

Having been under combat conditions inside of a ship any armor can be a pain in the ass, as can any rifle.

Can I quote you on that?

The player in question bought a FGMP to go with the battledress, Yes?

Originally, yes. Then I described what firing a FGMP is like (lethal radiation burst, etc.). He downgraded to PGMP.

Well just let him let off with that in a tight corridor, see how fast he fries himself. He is firing the equivalent of a light field gun in a tight, enclosed, sealed space.

Firing a PGMP in a ship? He would be mad. And the ship would be messed up; all that interior conduitry absolutely wrecked.

I generally point out if they want to fight military actions I will supply them with such. If group gets the Rep of using high fire power solutions, that is what their opposition will use.

I don't think they want military action...it's just that the player in question needs a security blanket for his character (he does this in every game).

 

[Infojunky]

Looking at the TMB and Mercenary for "Artillery" Battledress write ups I find what is described as heavy combat armor. The masses given alone are no where near what is described in the books you cite.

Fair enough. I didn't pay much attention to the masses, although the descriptions seemed to match MI pretty closely (augmented strength and reflexes, jump capable, Ground Assault Marines "dropped from high orbit to attack planet".)

Yes there is some of that, couple that picture to the general inflation that Battledress has gotten with every edition we where practically there. One of the strengths of TNE (and GT for that matter) was there was room for a wide variety of Battledress, from powered combat armor all the way up to the MI's Marauders.

As a side note Mongoose's "Starship Troopers" didn't do a very good job with this either. Funny thing that, but that is one of the hazards of mixing 2+ franchises and trying to make them work. Though the bugs were ok....

Having been under combat conditions inside of a ship any armor can be a pain in the ass, as can any rifle.

Can I quote you on that?

Sure.

The player in question bought a FGMP to go with the battledress, Yes?

Originally, yes. Then I described what firing a FGMP is like (lethal radiation burst, etc.). He downgraded to PGMP.

Well just let him let off with that in a tight corridor, see how fast he fries himself. He is firing the equivalent of a light field gun in a tight, enclosed, sealed space.

Firing a PGMP in a ship? He would be mad. And the ship would be messed up; all that interior conduitry absolutely wrecked.

Heh, you know he will......

I generally point out if they want to fight military actions I will supply them with such. If group gets the Rep of using high fire power solutions, that is what their opposition will use.

I don't think they want military action...it's just that the player in question needs a security blanket for his character (he does this in every game).

I know the type, just remind him about law levels....

 

[qstor]

Having been under combat conditions inside of a ship any armor can be a pain in the ass, as can any rifle.

I think it could be possible. I think there's a picture of battle dress in the CT SMC p. 5. It doesn't look that bulky.

Mike

 

[Infojunky]

Having been under combat conditions inside of a ship any armor can be a pain in the ass, as can any rifle.

I think it could be possible. I think there's a picture of battle dress in the CT SMC p. 5. It doesn't look that bulky.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I just said it was a pain.

 

[Beowulf2044]

Battle Dress? As I've told my players, being able to purchase that item as a civilian is like going out and buying a fully functional military tank today. Good luck with that.

As for internal starship combat; room on any starship is at an absolute premium. If you want to imagine Battle Dress in a starship interior, imagine wearing a J.I.M.S. hard diving suit and then go walkabout inside a submarine.

 

[cbrunish]

The players collectively intend to keep the BD in its locker for that ONE emergency when they need it.

Even in this case customs officials who discover the Battledress during
an inspection of the ship would most probably give a warning to the lo-
cal law enforcement authorities, which could create all kind of trouble
on any planet with a moderate to high law level.

If one purchases a Battledress, the trouble is always included for free. :twisted:

Remember that an Imperial starport is Imperial territory and local law levels do not apply. As long as the character kept the BD in the ships locker. And as long as there was a legal purchase reciept then even the Imperial authorities would have to ignore it. The character might have gotten it from mustering out benefits.

Now if the player decided to walk around town in the BD...That would be a different matter. I would imagine that would make the local military take action.

 

[Gee4orce]

I think there's a limit as to how bulky something can be before it becomes simply too cumbersome to wear - there's only so much thickness you can wear around the chest before your arms end up sticking out almost horizontally !

I think, at the tech levels we're talking about for Traveller Battle Dress, it'll probably not much more bulky than full combat armour. Much bulkier than a modern day space suit and you'd wouldn't really be able to have your limbs fully in the limbs of the suit, so you'd end up with a mecha-style suit.

The image I have fixed in my mind for Traveller Battle Dress is Iron Man. And that can't be a bad thing !

(BTW, I just want to give props to Mongoose for the proper, English spelling of Armour in MGT ! )

 

[St Albion]

Having been under combat conditions inside of a ship any armor can be a pain in the ass, as can any rifle.

I think it could be possible. I think there's a picture of battle dress in the CT SMC p. 5. It doesn't look that bulky.

Mike

Yeah, I was about to say that some of the illustrations I've seen of Marines in battle dress never gave the the impression that they should be penalised for fighting onboard a starship. I mean, boarding actions are a major part of a marine's job after all!

I always played it that the TL 13 version of Battledress was a pretty bulky afair, while the higher tech versions (standard marine kit) were a lot more "slimming".

As far as letting off a Fusion weapon in a starship goes ... yeah. Something I was thinking about was the idea of a plasma setting on FGMPs. The description in CT Book 4 stated that the plasma was held in the containment chamber a little longer to enable the fusion reaction. So in my mind it would be possible for an FGMP to not hold the bolt in long enough for fusion to take place, and to release the bolt as plasma. Would cut down on a lot of colateral damage! I'm sure there will be times where a marine just doesn't need to have his imediate area bathed in a dose of lethal radiation. Keen to hear opinions on that idea.

 

[Ishmael]

I always thought MT's battledress was too UN-bulky to be beleivable. But then I tend to use FFS+houserules to 'build' BD as one-man legged AFV's

IMTU, BD tends to be more like this:

http://www.maschinenkrueger.com/index.html

( look under "models" to check the armor out...take note of space-based suits for ship-boarding actions )

 

[Woas]

This is a very enlightening thread. I was under the impression Battle Dress was more like a mini mech around someone. Something like a mix between what Samus Aran wears in the Metroid games and this:

 

[GypsyComet]

I always thought MT's battledress was too UN-bulky to be beleivable. But then I tend to use FFS+houserules to 'build' BD as one-man legged AFV's

IMTU, BD tends to be more like this:

http://www.maschinenkrueger.com/index.html

( look under "models" to check the armor out...take note of space-based suits for ship-boarding actions )

Bulk comes down to armor materials and the volume needs for the load-bearing enhancements and life-support gear.

Given the prototypes we're seeing for strength enhancement now, another 3000 years and 7 TL should see Battledress looking pretty sleek.

 

[Ishmael]

Bulk comes down to armor materials and the volume needs for the load-bearing enhancements and life-support gear.

Given the prototypes we're seeing for strength enhancement now, another 3000 years and 7 TL should see Battledress looking pretty sleek.

Its a matter of taste actually...see the "IMTU" in my post

Armor materials affect mass more than volume ( bulk?). but using values for powerplants,life support,weapons, etc. the suit does become a bit bulkier ( and more massive ) than the MT pics show. By using FFS1 to 'build' it, I'm able to keep armor and capabilities consistent with other military hardware.
I suspect the pics of BD were inspired more by StarWars stormtroopers than Heinlein Starship Troopers.

I tend to feel that BD is over-rated anyways....
Based on Striker, a tech 6 6cm HEAT rifle grenade can take out a tech 14 AV18 suit.

besides, I just think maschienen krieger stuff is cool looking. In a game, thats the best reason, isn't it?