B5 RPG space combat

[White Star]

Hi everyone. This is my first posting.

Being a B5 addict and a RPG addict, I am delighted to be able to mix both passions and I wanted to thank JMS and Mongoose Publishing for this.

Now for my question(s):

I've played around with the space combat in the RPG Factbook and tested all sorts of ships and weaponry. I own the League of Non-Aligned Worlds Factbook (which I recommend to all), and so I had a lot of fun testing the potential of the different races.

But a few questions come to mind. A few more will most certainly follow as I play around a bit more.

First: assuming we're talking of a large enough vessel (several weapon arrays and enough crew around), how many of its weapons can a ship fire at one time? I would tend to assume that a ship can fire all of them at the same time if it so wishes, which also fits with what we see in the TV series.
But since it is not said in the Rules, it raises the question, even if the answer seems logical to me.

Second: the Minbari Flight Computer, as described on page 79 of the RPG Factbook, is said to be "so advanced that it can even fulfil most combat operations successfully, with minimal input from its passengers". In terms of game mechanics, what does it mean? Do the advantages of the Flight Computer (namely a +8 ranks in Piloting and a Base Attack Bonus of +4) get added to the crew's stats, or do they replace them?

Third: In the case of a Living Ship with no crew, like a Vorlon Transport just going for a joy ride(?), we are told to assume that, as a Living Ship, it has "all the capabilities of a Minbari Flight Computer". All right, but then it means absolutely no ranks in Technical (electronics)! If nothing else than the ship's sensors are used, then, a Vorlon transport has got as much chance to acquire a lock on a Minbari Fighter or Warcruiser as the rest of the younger races' ships! Namely, they have to roll a natural 20!
If this is understandable coming from the younger races (it is well known that during the Earth-Minbari War, Earth ships found it nearly impossible to get a lock on Minbari ships), it does not seem to make sense when it comes from a Vorlon ship, even a simple Vorlon transport.
Any comment?

Fourth (and last for now): There are contradictions between the information given on Shadow ships at the end of "The Fiery Trial" and the info released in a free download on this website. I do give precedence to the download, which is a clear and detailed technical description... except for one thing. In "The Fiery Trial", page 109, a few words are said about the Shadow Jump (the shimmering effect) : "Its weapon is not ready to fire until the round after arrival in either dimension. The ship cannot transfer to or from hyperspace more than once in any one minute period."
There is no mention of this in the download, and even though I can make my own decisions, I'd like to know the official position on this.

And by the way, is a round in space as long as a round in a melee fight (6 seconds?). If it is, then the one minute period mentioned above corresponds to 10 rounds. And as we all know, a lot can happen in ten rounds.
So, if we were to take that rule into account (but do we?), another question is: isn't that too long a period? Or is it fair to give the Shadows that small drawback? ("small" considering that even if they have to hang around for 10 rounds, that is more than enough time to blow your proud little ship into smithereen!)

I think that's it... for now.
Sorry I have to be so "wordy", but if we want to play the space combat with the RPG rules, they need to be clear and fluid. Otherwise, they'll block the game and the story instead of furthering them.

What say you?

 

[crizh]

Namely, they have to roll a natural 20!

Unfortunately a natural 20 is not an automatic success for a skill check.

 

[frobisher]

So, if we were to take that rule into account (but do we?), another question is: isn't that too long a period? Or is it fair to give the Shadows that small drawback? ("small" considering that even if they have to hang around for 10 rounds, that is more than enough time to blow your proud little ship into smithereen!)

Long? That's a positively lighning fast turnaround for a ship recycling its jumpengines. Given that I don't have my Fact Book to hand, but I do have the electronic version of the B5W SCSes that the ships were derived from I'll use those as reference.

The Shadow Cruiser has a jumpdelay of 8 turns
The Omega Destroyer 20 turns
The Whitestar 24 turns

B5W never actually pinned the turn length down (a lot of us assumed 10 seconds or so) a minute sounds about right there given screen evidence (phases in, shoots the crap out of target, gloats a little then goes away) - generally about 30 seconds to a minute for the set piece

 

[redlaco]

Welcome to the boards, White Star.

These are all good points that you raise. You might want to try A Call to Arms as a replacement to the space combat system in the RPG. That's what I intend to do myself.

As for the delay for the Shadow's jumping back and forth, I'd say 1 round (6 seconds) would be enough. I know it's pretty fast, but in the show they seemed to be quite instaneous. Just like Frobisher described, in 20 to 30 seconds they had time to hop in, trash some poor sods, then hop out seemingly at will. Pretty fast if you ask me, so I think 10 rounds is way too long.

 

[redlaco]

Unfortunately a natural 20 is not an automatic success for a skill check.

In my games, I allow a natural 20 to be a success at all time (even skill checks), unless the exploit attempted is really out of proportion. Call me old school, but I like to give some hope to my players so they can sometimes rely on pure luck. For the rare times it happens, the cheers and excitement are well worth it, IMHO.

 

[crizh]

The flip side is that a 1 always fails.

Thus 5% of a Craftsmans creations are flawed no matter how simple they are or how skilled the Craftsman.

It makes sense where good and bad luck have a lot of influence like combat and saves but when you are talking about almost pure skill in controlled circumstances it is not quite so reasonable.

I'm not sure but we might be using some sort of open-ended dice rolling system for skills...

Perturbatio?

 

[Jenesis]

There's also the exploding dice option - on a roll of 20, let the player roll again, and add the scores. A second 20 gets another roll, and so on. For a roll of 1, give another roll and take 20 away from that value. If another 1 is rolled, give another roll and take 40 away, etc. This has the advantage that a reasonably skilled character can still make simple checks on a 1 - if he rolls a 1, then a 16, and has 10 ranks in the skill, his final score is 6.

If a 1 is rolled after a 20, or vice versa, just end things there - don't bounce back and forth between 20s and 1s.

Effectively, this doesn't give automatic successes/failures, but does give a slim chance for any character to perform a given task, assuming at least one rank in a trained-only skill. We run this in our d20 games, it seems to work quite well. Natural 20s and 1s in combat apply as normal.

 

[Perturbatio]

if he rolls a 1, then a 16, and has 10 ranks in the skill, his final score is 6.

Surely that would be -5?

 

[Vorlon Servant]

White Star, here is my take on your questions.

First: Unless otherwise stated, a ship can fire all of it's weapons each turn.

Second: The Minbari Flight Computer adds it's skill to the pilots.

Third: If this is giving you problems, simply add a crew. You could even
say the ship is being controled telepathicly

Fourth: The ship in the Fiery Trial was only used as a plot piece. Use
the more recent rules for the Shadows. The newest rules are in
Point of No Return. These rules also state that Shadow ships
can move in and out of hyperspace "at will". I wouldn't bother
with a recharge time. This isn't a war game like A Call To Arms,
they don't have to be balenced.

 

[White Star]

Thanks for your advice, everyone.

I could indeed get "A Call to Arms", but when I'm in the middle of a RPG, the last thing I want is to turn it into a Wargame. My players (and myself)are more intereste by the story than by its technicalities, and I want to make sure they're not going to loose interest because a space combat is suddenly taking ages.
Fluidity is the keyword, here, and that is why I want to be able to use the RPG space combat rules in a quick and efficient way.

This being said, I would love to play "A Call to Arms" as a separate game, and maybe I will...

Thanks again

 

[frobisher]

Fourth: The ship in the Fiery Trial was only used as a plot piece. Use
the more recent rules for the Shadows. The newest rules are in
Point of No Return. These rules also state that Shadow ships
can move in and out of hyperspace "at will". I wouldn't bother
with a recharge time. This isn't a war game like A Call To Arms,
they don't have to be balenced.

Hmm, missed that - another one to add to my long list of gripes with "Point of no Return". Of course, "at will" needs a proper definition. They clearly couldn't phase in and out "at will" or they'd never be hit by weapons fire (like they avoided the e-mines (ish) that one time).

The thing is, within the RPG you should never need stats for the Shadows (or indeed Vorlons) and their actions. If the players really think they can beat the Shadows just by lucky dice rolls, they deserve to die, and let's face it, theres nothing a Brigantine can do in a minute that'll make the blindest bit of difference to a Shadow Cruiser, apart from providing it with a target...

Unless you have players on both sides of a starship combat, I'd just have them roll dice to keep the players happy and just describe their effects the way you want the conflict to go. Even quicker that way, and they think they're contributing as well

 

[Vorlon Servant]

They clearly couldn't phase in and out "at will" or they'd never be hit by weapons fire (like they avoided the e-mines (ish) that one time).

You could make the phase a full round action. That way the ship could do nothing else and would briefly be vulnerable when it jumps in. In the series there was always a slight pause befor it fired.

The thing is, within the RPG you should never need stats for the Shadows (or indeed Vorlons) and their actions.

I like having these rules, if only for comparison. I just think that the ships should be powerfull enough so that only a combined effort of several other ships of equal size from the younger races should be a threat, and that the Vorlons and Shadows themselves sould be able to crush a level 20 character like a bug.