Attacks of Opportunity

[SaskDM]

OK, I'm looking through the book for clarification on what to do when an enemy runs by me. I assumed I would get an attack of opportunity. My question is whether or not this would cost me a CA but I cannot find anything.

Is there anything about attacks of opportunity in the rules?

Thanks for any assistance.

 

[almightygm]

AoEs are not a RQII thing...more of a D&D thing. RQII uses the Combat Maneuver system for extra little attacks and actions. Any system that says I can attack someone just because they happen to run by is a little flawed, IMHO.

 

[jolt]

AoEs are not a RQII thing...more of a D&D thing. RQII uses the Combat Maneuver system for extra little attacks and actions. Any system that says I can attack someone just because they happen to run by is a little flawed, IMHO.

I have to disagree. I dislike games where an armed enemy can just stroll past me just because "it isn't my turn" or what have you. Unless I am completely help up by something I should be able to make some kind of reaction to an enemy who is right next to me. tot being able to do so is a bit of a strain to my credulity.

jolt

 

[almightygm]

Let me explain how I feel this is taken care of in the system. The scenario for your argument is that your character is just "standing around" waiting for someone to walk by. In RQII, you can do that, it's called Delay.

But if you aren't Delaying (aka, standing around) it is assumed that you are engaged - using your CAs - in either defensive/offensive action of some sort and therefore realistically do not have the extra attention/time to spare to whack at passers-by. Presumably you're engaged with someone already or are trying to get away from someone.

If someone wanders by and it isn't your strike rank yet, you can't hit them because they are reacting quicker than your character can. If you throw that out, SR starts to lose it's meaning;going first is an advantage for fast characters, and part of that advantage is being able to move past slower reacting characters without them being able to attack you.

That said, it would be easy to model your own Attack of Opportunity, if you wished.

My 2 cents.

 

[SaskDM]

What Jolt said agrees with my line of thinking.

I was thinking that in a combat all I have to do is wait for everyone to finish their attacks and then stroll past them. This seems a bit flawed. Also, it also seems that I can simply turn around in combat and walk away without worry of being attacked just because someone has used up their CAs.

I know this is D&D thinking but it seems to me that if you put yourself in harms way without regard to your safety, you should be clobbered.

What I'm thinking about adding is that if you put yourself in a situation where someone can get an attack of opportunity (ie: moving past someone on combat, getting a missile ready, etc), the attacker can then make one attack upon you.

Since you are not actively defending yourself (otherwise there would be no attack of opportunity), the attacker gets one automatic success.

This should keep people aware of the actions in combat and not just wander through the battlefield without a care just because everyone has attacked and no-one has any CAs left.

Any thoughts?

 

[almightygm]

What Jolt said agrees with my line of thinking.
I was thinking that in a combat all I have to do is wait for everyone to finish their attacks and then stroll past them. This seems a bit flawed. Also, it also seems that I can simply turn around in combat and walk away without worry of being attacked just because someone has used up their CAs.

The point I was making is that you aren't just "Waiting Around" unless you are delaying. The SR system is just a way to model a very chaotic 5 seconds.

If you are last in the SR list you're there because you're slower to react than all others. When you do go you can walk by everyone else because they are engaged fighting/defending at the moment and aren't going to bother with you wandering by.

If someone has used up their CAs, that means they can't act anymore because they've done all they possibly can in the 5 second long round. By introducing free attacks with AoEs, then you get the classic dungeons and dragons problem where I get to swing my sword 5 bazillion times because 3 people decided to wander by and my opponent tried to run off. Not realistic. You simply can't have all your 3-4 CAs and 4 more free attacks in a five second period.

Also, there are optional rules in the book when trying to disengage from close combat that does make it hard to run off when engaged.

 

[jolt]

What Jolt said agrees with my line of thinking.
I was thinking that in a combat all I have to do is wait for everyone to finish their attacks and then stroll past them. This seems a bit flawed. Also, it also seems that I can simply turn around in combat and walk away without worry of being attacked just because someone has used up their CAs.

The point I was making is that you aren't just "Waiting Around" unless you are delaying. The SR system is just a way to model a very chaotic 5 seconds.

If you are last in the SR list you're there because you're slower to react than all others. When you do go you can walk by everyone else because they are engaged fighting/defending at the moment and aren't going to bother with you wandering by.

If someone has used up their CAs, that means they can't act anymore because they've done all they possibly can in the 5 second long round. By introducing free attacks with AoEs, then you get the classic dungeons and dragons problem where I get to swing my sword 5 bazillion times because 3 people decided to wander by and my opponent tried to run off. Not realistic. You simply can't have all your 3-4 CAs and 4 more free attacks in a five second period.

Also, there are optional rules in the book when trying to disengage from close combat that does make it hard to run off when engaged.

But this creates the bizarre situation where you're backhandedly penalised for going first. It reminds me of the Order of the Stick comic (TM) where everyone in the party "Ready's an Action" and they just end up attacking themselves as they get in each others way.

This is also why I'm also not too fond of the "everyone declare what you're doing first before any rolls are made" concept. Rolemaster did it that way and I didn't like it there either. Ultra-reaction character 1 leaps forwards and attacks whatever. Then the whatever's go and beat the snot out of character 1 who they now surround because he's the only one to have "gone". The rest of the party is still standing around watching their friend get his butt kicked. The person who goes last (i.e. has the slowest reactions) is actually in the best position as he can act , rather artificially, knowing that no one can really do anything about it. That's completely backwards.

We aren't dealing with super wuxia ninja speeds here where someone can just bolt by another without the slightest hesitation or reaction. The fastest/most perceptive and/or reactive character should have the best ability to react to the combat around them but, mechanically, the reverse is true. It's nice to be able to attack first but not at the cost of losing the ability to react to the combat around you.

jolt

 

[almightygm]

Well, not to beat a dead horse to death, but when we sit around table and ploddingly go through each strike rank and everyone takes their turn it gives the illusion that a lot of time is passing in combat when in terms of the gam system, the guy that goes on Strike Rank 25 and the guy that blew his roll and is going on SR 8 are actually acting within a couple of seconds of each other. The SR25 guy doesn't go and then casually observe everyone else attack for 10 minutes (the players do .

In my experience thus far with RQII and other games, going first is a massive advantage, AOEs or no. If I want the ability to go later so I can evaluate and react later, then Delay is available to adjust your SR.

 

[sdavies2720]

...This is also why I'm also not too fond of the "everyone declare what you're doing first before any rolls are made" concept. Rolemaster did it that way and I didn't like it there either. Ultra-reaction character 1 leaps forwards and attacks whatever. Then the whatever's go and beat the snot out of character 1 who they now surround because he's the only one to have "gone". The rest of the party is still standing around watching their friend get his butt kicked. The person who goes last (i.e. has the slowest reactions) is actually in the best position as he can act , rather artificially, knowing that no one can really do anything about it. That's completely backwards...

One of the best was to handle this that I've seen is to have players declare their character's action starting from the lowest IQ character to the highest. Then the actions unfold from fastest to slowest.

By using IQ for declarations, players of smarter characters could hear what everybody else was doing before they decided what they would do. But sometimes the fast character could still make something happen just by being fast.

That was a long time ago, and it was just too much work. The MRQ2 system seems to work well, without a lot of overhead. But yes, any simplified system can lead to abuse. I'd prefer to have the GM make a ruling when the rules are being abused.

Steve

 

[Deleriad]

"Attacks of opportunity" already exist in RQ under certain circumstances.

One is as a response to the change range combat action when you can either oppose it with an evade or a counter-attack.

Second is as a response to a charge where you can either evade or counter-attack.

That said, I do feel that RQ lacks an ability to guard a space. People may have forgotten that if you delay an action but don't use it by SR 0 that the action is lost. This means for example that if you're standing ready to hit someone but no one moves past you before SR 1 then you lose the action. It does not carry on until your next SR.At which point anyone with a higher SR can move past you on the next SR cycle before your SR kicks in.

RQ allows you to "ready" a parry as an action which allows you to reserve your CA for a parry which lasts until your next active SR. Similarly I allow characters to ready an attack which lasts until their next active SR. The restriction is that if they do anything else (e.g. evade a missile attack) they lose the action. This is sort of what happens with counter-attacking charges anyway.

Of course all these use CAs, RQ has no notion of 'free" attacks.