Aslan Territory

[MasterGwydion]

There seem to be two contradictory rules regarding Aslan territory.

Here is the one from AoCS1,

"Space is not Territory: No Aslan male may claim a region of space. A Traveller need not ask permission to enter any region of space – but before he puts a single foot on the ground, he must give all traditional honours to the landowner."

and here is from Clans of the Aslan,

"The surfaces of divided control worlds are partitioned into separate clan territories. The clans also divide control of the space around the world and throughout the system. Each clan might maintain its own base, its own colonies, its own space station, its own outposts. Occasionally clans might even maintain their own starports. Each clan would enforce such regulations regarding interplanetary flight as it saw fit, with local Law Level serving as a good guide to its stringency."

One says that clans can own space, the other seems to forbid it.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Control, not ownership - think of it in terms of administration and traffic control.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Explain the difference from an Aslan male point of view. Aslan males only control what they own as far as I have read. Aslan culture doesn't really allow for "control" without ownership, except in vassalage, which cannot apply to Space. An Aslan has no right to tell other clans what to do outside of their own Territory.

 

[Condottiere]

Might affect mineral rights, but does place into question overflight by drones.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Might affect mineral rights, but does place into question overflight by drones.

Technically asteroids could be owned, since they can be considered "land", but as Territory, they'd be considered nearly worthless by the males.

 

[Limpin Legin]

Neither say "space" can be "owned" by an Aslan male.

Territory can be Claimed and Owned

Space is maintained and regulated for the purposes of access thru the control of bases, outposts and space stations. Owning a single berth or a twin berth does little for the male Aslan libido, perhaps.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Technically asteroids could be owned, since they can be considered "land", but as Territory, they'd be considered nearly worthless by the males.

This is true.

The way to look at it is this: the only thing of real 'worth' is actual ground (be it a planet or an asteroid). If it is solid and you can walk on it, it has worth (however much or little). You don't 'own' the void around it, but control of that space is obviously important from, say, a security (or tax!) point of view.

The ground is yours. If you can dictate who can and cannot go through the space around it, then your ground (dirt?) is more secure. So, that is desirable.

 

[MasterGwydion]

This is true.

The way to look at it is this: the only thing of real 'worth' is actual ground (be it a planet or an asteroid). If it is solid and you can walk on it, it has worth (however much or little). You don't 'own' the void around it, but control of that space is obviously important from, say, a security (or tax!) point of view.

The ground is yours. If you can dictate who can and cannot go through the space around it, then your ground (dirt?) is more secure. So, that is desirable.

How is that accomplished on a multi-clan world or multi-clan system?

 

[Anstett]

Also the idea of does Territory similar or equal Corporation?
Territory for Males
Corporation for Females

Does a Starport count as Territory AND Corporation? Making both happy?

 

[Condottiere]

I suppose they could go around, marking their territory.

 

[G'Naakbusters]

Explain the difference from an Aslan male point of view.

Possibly, it's about what constitutes an unacceptable affront to honour and that which is undesirable but not penalised.

That is, someone else -- or an interest from outside the clan -- can enter the star system or take orbit over the planet, and that might be read as potentially hostile, but it's not against the "rules". That isn't territory, so no-one actually owns it. If the Aslan owning territory below wants to challenge the newcomer or make a point about who's in control here, he can do that, but the other party isn't "in the wrong" for being there. In fact, since Aslan engage in sparring and duals through ritualised insult as something distinct from actual honour feuds, it makes sense that they might even encourage this to some extent.

Actually stepping foot uninvited on an Aslan male's land, however, is absolute crossing-the-red-line unacceptable.

I suppose it's a little like the difference between annoying someone by being in their personal space and actually laying hands on someone. The former is rude and might spark confrontation, the latter is assault and so violation of law.

"I control this space"
"Yeah, but I'm going to come through here anyway. No-one owns it."
Options: Make some sort of deal or agreement in which they pay some ritual respect before passing through; issue a challenge, make some measured demonstration of aggression to spark a controlled contest; have your wives go talk with their wives because maybe this is some of that odd money-stuff the women are involved with.

"This is my land."
"Yeah, but I'm on it anyway."
Options: Honour duel. No other option. No-one would expect anything else.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Possibly, it's about what constitutes an unacceptable affront to honour and that which is undesirable but not penalised.

That is, someone else -- or an interest from outside the clan -- can enter the star system or take orbit over the planet, and that might be read as potentially hostile, but it's not against the "rules". That isn't territory, so no-one actually owns it. If the Aslan owning territory below wants to challenge the newcomer or make a point about who's in control here, he can do that, but the other party isn't "in the wrong" for being there. In fact, since Aslan engage in sparring and duals through ritualised insult as something distinct from actual honour feuds, it makes sense that they might even encourage this to some extent.

Actually stepping foot uninvited on an Aslan male's land, however, is absolute crossing-the-red-line unacceptable.

I suppose it's a little like the difference between annoying someone by being in their personal space and actually laying hands on someone. The former is rude and might spark confrontation, the latter is assault and so violation of law.

"I control this space"
"Yeah, but I'm going to come through here anyway. No-one owns it."
Options: Make some sort of deal or agreement in which they pay some ritual respect before passing through; issue a challenge, make some measured demonstration of aggression to spark a controlled contest; have your wives go talk with their wives because maybe this is some of that odd money-stuff the women are involved with.

"This is my land."
"Yeah, but I'm on it anyway."
Options: Honour duel. No other option. No-one would expect anything else.

I love this explanation. It very much agrees with Aslan culture.

Also the idea of does Territory similar or equal Corporation?
Territory for Males
Corporation for Females

Does a Starport count as Territory AND Corporation? Making both happy?

Corporations rent land from the Clans. Starports are often by clan and not by planet, so multiple starports are a thing in Aslan Space.

 

[rinku]

How is that accomplished on a multi-clan world or multi-clan system?

I dunno, MG. How is it accomplished on present day Earth?

 

[MasterGwydion]

I dunno, MG. How is it accomplished on present day Earth?

Not sure. How many Aslan clans live on present day Earth? If you find any, I'll go ask them.

 

[Condottiere]

Evolved Aslan.

 

[MongooseMatt]

How is that accomplished on a multi-clan world or multi-clan system?

I imagine with no little bloodshed at some point, at least until the high-ranking female administrators kick in...

 

[MongooseMatt]

Yes, it is a lot like this. Canon.