Snowedunder
Mongoose
Has anyone been tempted to completely remove the armour skill penalties from their game? If so how has it panned out. Has it unbalanced the game?
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Armour Skill Penalty
- Thread starter Snowedunder
- Start date
gamesmeister
Banded Mongoose
I've never used it, but armour in my game is fairly limited so at present it's not unbalanced. I might replace it at some point with something a bit more realistic.
Lakritsploppen
Mongoose
Well, in my game the armour penalty only exists for fatigue, swimming and climbing rolls.
But thats how i do it!
I did run a test battle with armour penaltys, did'nt like the feeling removed it and personally thinks it runs better without.
But thats how i do it!
I did run a test battle with armour penaltys, did'nt like the feeling removed it and personally thinks it runs better without.
Up to you how you do it, but I think the rulebook is too hard. Dont take em out though. Armour is freakin heavy to wear according to battle reenactors I know.
1 - Half skill penalties
2 - Use enc value for skill penalties
3 - Use them in certain places
4 - Beef up your players. Armour does not work with started novice characters. They cant afford to and are not skilled or expereinced enough to wear it.
1 - Half skill penalties
2 - Use enc value for skill penalties
3 - Use them in certain places
4 - Beef up your players. Armour does not work with started novice characters. They cant afford to and are not skilled or expereinced enough to wear it.
weasel_fierce
Mongoose
We play without it, though next time, I'll use it as written, but not applying to weapon skill rolls.
Lakritsploppen said:Well, in my game the armour penalty only exists for fatigue, swimming and climbing rolls.
But thats how i do it!
I think that would be how I would do it too.
Lakritsploppen
Mongoose
The battle reenactment guys i did know, all told me the hardest thing with heavy armour is to change directions when you do a charge & you get tired faster.
After playing around, I use half penalty for attacks/parries, full penalty for most other skills, including Dodge, and use penalties for Fatigue, too - which isn't in the book.
I've moved away from applying the full penalty to Runecasting, though, as my players and I prefer a higher-magic game.
I also apply multiple test penalties for fatigue as well, though.
I've moved away from applying the full penalty to Runecasting, though, as my players and I prefer a higher-magic game.
I also apply multiple test penalties for fatigue as well, though.
weasel_fierce
Mongoose
Halfbat said:After playing around, I use half penalty for attacks/parries, full penalty for most other skills, including Dodge, and use penalties for Fatigue, too - which isn't in the book.
I've moved away from applying the full penalty to Runecasting, though, as my players and I prefer a higher-magic game.
I also apply multiple test penalties for fatigue as well, though.
I like the way you do it.
Blackyinkin
Mongoose
Hi All,
I have just literally hit this wall while doing some pregenerated characters for my game in Sweden in a couple of weeks. The armour penalties seems to be immensley restrictive, having seen the guys at Warwick castle ballet dance in armour, perform leaps and jumps I am inclined to alter them, but not sure how. I quickly discovered that the average Seshnelan Knight in full plate cannot move, let alone fight!
Simon
I have just literally hit this wall while doing some pregenerated characters for my game in Sweden in a couple of weeks. The armour penalties seems to be immensley restrictive, having seen the guys at Warwick castle ballet dance in armour, perform leaps and jumps I am inclined to alter them, but not sure how. I quickly discovered that the average Seshnelan Knight in full plate cannot move, let alone fight!
Simon
Blackyinkin said:Hi All,
I have just literally hit this wall while doing some pregenerated characters for my game in Sweden in a couple of weeks. The armour penalties seems to be immensley restrictive, having seen the guys at Warwick castle ballet dance in armour, perform leaps and jumps I am inclined to alter them, but not sure how. I quickly discovered that the average Seshnelan Knight in full plate cannot move, let alone fight!
Simon
I don't know whether you watched that battle reenactment guy on TV doing shieldwalls, schiltroms, etc. Well he did a knight in specially made armour (as close to the real thing they could get), fell off his horse at full pelt and jumped straight back up again. He says he was trying to dispel the myth about medieval knights being unable to stand up when they've fallen over and he does a good job, IMHO.
Sinisalo said:Blackyinkin said:Hi All,
I have just literally hit this wall while doing some pregenerated characters for my game in Sweden in a couple of weeks. The armour penalties seems to be immensley restrictive, having seen the guys at Warwick castle ballet dance in armour, perform leaps and jumps I am inclined to alter them, but not sure how. I quickly discovered that the average Seshnelan Knight in full plate cannot move, let alone fight!
Simon
I don't know whether you watched that battle reenactment guy on TV doing shieldwalls, schiltroms, etc. Well he did a knight in specially made armour (as close to the real thing they could get), fell off his horse at full pelt and jumped straight back up again. He says he was trying to dispel the myth about medieval knights being unable to stand up when they've fallen over and he does a good job, IMHO.
As someone who owns a 16 and 18 gauge suit of armour that I did live steel combat in. I can tell you for a fact that getting knocked down you can get back up on your own. Though I can tell you from experience knocking someone down they are only helpless for a short period of time that you can take advantage of.
When I was still doing SCA heavy, I used to wear my chainmail hauberk when I went rollerskating. After the first time I wore the underpadding, and I always wore something over it, as I didnt feel the public would be to cool about it.
The suit weoghed in at 45 lb, but as it was chain, it was plenty flexible. I dont believe that anyone I didnt tell ever realized I was wearing it.
I dont think my full set was as much a burden as the flak jacket and helmet the army made me waer. And when I was yopunger I could get through a pretty good obsticle course just fine in full gear. Now, the one time they made us go through in full chemical gear, includeing gasmask was another thing entirely. In fact the mask alone just about stops you cold.
So yes, I feel the current penaltys are way harsh. To the point it may be better to fight unarmored than armored, and that does not sem to be born out histricaly.
The suit weoghed in at 45 lb, but as it was chain, it was plenty flexible. I dont believe that anyone I didnt tell ever realized I was wearing it.
I dont think my full set was as much a burden as the flak jacket and helmet the army made me waer. And when I was yopunger I could get through a pretty good obsticle course just fine in full gear. Now, the one time they made us go through in full chemical gear, includeing gasmask was another thing entirely. In fact the mask alone just about stops you cold.
So yes, I feel the current penaltys are way harsh. To the point it may be better to fight unarmored than armored, and that does not sem to be born out histricaly.
Mongoose Pete
Mongoose
Hi SimonBlackyinkin said:I have just literally hit this wall while doing some pregenerated characters for my game in Sweden in a couple of weeks. The armour penalties seems to be immensley restrictive, having seen the guys at Warwick castle ballet dance in armour, perform leaps and jumps I am inclined to alter them, but not sure how. I quickly discovered that the average Seshnelan Knight in full plate cannot move, let alone fight!
Having fought in armour for the best part of twelve years now, I can attest that it does restrict and hamper to some degree. Years of practice has helped me to 'forget' the hindrance, but when I hold training sessions out of armour, it becomes very apparent that I increase in speed and maneuverability. We can put you in several different sets for you to experience when you come over...
You also have to bare in mind that medieval full plate was primarily designed for use from horseback, so that it was the horse gave you the battlefield maneuverability and extended your combat endurance.
However for MRQ, the penalties are a bit too high if you use opposed rolls for combat. So I'd also suggest halving the penalties, and perhaps bumping up the base combat skills.
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Dear All,
Virtually no historically extant shirt of mail using the normal combination of riveted and solid rings typically weighed more than c. 25 lbs. There is a 28 lbs. shirt often mentioned (built for a giant of a man), but c. 18-22 lbs. was more common (there being a good example in the Wallace Collection of 20 lbs. - normal sized).
One of the reasons mail was used so extensively was that it did offer a good protection/weight ratio, as well as being a reasonably simple item to make (although the wee little triangles of metal used to form the rivets might have been easy to lose...).
Regards
45 lbs.!!! That must be a modern butt-jointed suit, made extra thick to keep the rings from tearing apart under their own weight (being merely butted together).The suit weoghed in at 45 lb, but as it was chain, it was plenty flexible.
Virtually no historically extant shirt of mail using the normal combination of riveted and solid rings typically weighed more than c. 25 lbs. There is a 28 lbs. shirt often mentioned (built for a giant of a man), but c. 18-22 lbs. was more common (there being a good example in the Wallace Collection of 20 lbs. - normal sized).
One of the reasons mail was used so extensively was that it did offer a good protection/weight ratio, as well as being a reasonably simple item to make (although the wee little triangles of metal used to form the rivets might have been easy to lose...).
Regards
LHM, yes my very first set, made of high steel telephone cable, not sure of the gauge but thick. And yes butted because who has time to rivet when you are 20?
In fact to this day I dont rivet, but I do weld when the mood strikes me.
Actualy the hard part for chain is makeing the wire, not the suit. And most village smiths should have been able to do that. Its not complex, just very hard and time consumeing. At least until you get water powered gear.
I liked the old Rolemaster system of armor. You started almost incapacitated with heavy armor, but over time you could get it down to manageable but still some mobility loss.
Never used a sword on horseback, but I have moved cows( yes I am from WAY out in the country). Horses dont know when you are playing, and would not be that cool to use in SCA type things.
Reenactment is different, but still they dont act like a modern crowd expects after seeing so many movies.
I had much more problems with my shield than with armor. It is a full sized roman auxilary shield, 46" tall and about 24 wide. It is not that heavy, just very awkward to carry around. Much hated by ioppopnents, as I am short enough to almost disapear behind it when I crouch down into fighting stance.
In fact to this day I dont rivet, but I do weld when the mood strikes me.
Actualy the hard part for chain is makeing the wire, not the suit. And most village smiths should have been able to do that. Its not complex, just very hard and time consumeing. At least until you get water powered gear.
I liked the old Rolemaster system of armor. You started almost incapacitated with heavy armor, but over time you could get it down to manageable but still some mobility loss.
Never used a sword on horseback, but I have moved cows( yes I am from WAY out in the country). Horses dont know when you are playing, and would not be that cool to use in SCA type things.
Reenactment is different, but still they dont act like a modern crowd expects after seeing so many movies.
I had much more problems with my shield than with armor. It is a full sized roman auxilary shield, 46" tall and about 24 wide. It is not that heavy, just very awkward to carry around. Much hated by ioppopnents, as I am short enough to almost disapear behind it when I crouch down into fighting stance.
