Depends on where else they might need to go. Fight the Vargr, put down a rebellion in the Interior, etc. The Imperial Fringe does have its colonial/planetary armies, after all. And the Army isn't all that useful until the Navy shows up, so stationing them in front of the Navy just risks them getting trapped on planet and bombarded.
Armies of the Fifth Frontier War, Impressions Not Errata
- Thread starter ottarrus
- Start date
A big part of the Opening Moves adventure is that there is a whole Imperial movement dedicated to ensuring the biggest and best equipped forces are present where they could best protect Mora rather than where they could best be used by a coherent war plan to actually stop the Zhos
collins355
Cosmic Mongoose
I've posted this before in earlier topics where we've been discussing the boardgame, but there is a VTT version of it available on Vassal (https://vassalengine.org/library/projects/Fifth_Frontier_War).
collins355
Cosmic Mongoose
Just to be clear - the Trepida in MegaTrav where it originated was a TL14 design, as was the companion Astrin APC. (see 101 Vehicles, Imperial Encyclopedia, Rebellion Sourcebook, etc). It was a TL14 design in TNE as well (see Regency Combat Vehicle Guide, Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide, etc). Mongoose owns all these works and it would have been the work of five minutes to look this stuff up.
Hey everyone,
To throw some water or oil onto this discussion (your opinions may vary), the new Mongoose blog launches on Thursday, spearheaded with an article that covers exactly this!
To throw some water or oil onto this discussion (your opinions may vary), the new Mongoose blog launches on Thursday, spearheaded with an article that covers exactly this!
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Sadly, I won't ever see or listen to it. I do not think I have ever watched a blog in My life.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The Imperial Army is off board at the start of the war, it doesn't appear in force until the reinforcements turn begins. The Imperium does not maintain Imperial Army units on worlds in the Spinward Marhces, they are on Efate because they are fighting a war for example. There are a few waystaions, there are lots of IN bases, they stockpile the supplies. The regular Imperial Army is deployed via the IN during the war, with all the logistics they need.
They are TL15, with a minority of TL14.
Local worlds provide colonial forces that are drafted by the Imperium, and also planetary troops that can never leave their own planet. Then there are the houshold troops of the subsector dukes.
Because of comm lag, there is no god view.
Because they don't know where the fight will be. Which worlds are the Zhodani going to land armies on rather than bombard into submission then send in token troops to occupy?
Because if they station the Army too close to the likely conflict zone the Zhodani can make a beeline and nuke them from orbit - unless you also have a defensive fleet, in which case you now have a fortress world....
The Army, much like the majority of the Navy, is off board awaiting the Zhodani to make their play. Local forces and regular units can do no more than delay, the game doesn't really get going for the Imperials until their reinforcements start to take the field.
They are, but it takes time for the communication of the assault to travel those 12 parsecs, minimum 2 weeks, in reality longer since it takes time for the news of the invasion to be relayed from the Zho jump off point to the nearest IN base and then via fleet courier) next bottleneck is some time to organise and embark troops, then at fleet movement speed 3 to 4 weeks to get them to the conflict zone, longer to get to where ever the Zh are now since your intel is a month out of date.
Meanwhile teh Zhodani have jumped
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
So which planets would you fortify?
You have 8 field armies, to which planets to you commit them?
At the start of the FFW the Imperial army has a corps on Efate, 4 brigades on random worlds, and 4 regiments on random worlds.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Just to be clear, the author who wrote it said it was a TL15 design and submitted as such. Someone edited it to be TL14.
That is not what a blog is
Think of it as a collection of articles for the community. In a way, a mini-JTAS, though covering all games and taking peeks behind the scenes.
Both!
We have been building up a little catalogue of background lore articles, but there will be all sorts of bits and pieces posted - little interviews, art pieces, book previews, general meandering thoughts...
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
This sounds like very good news indeed.That is not what a blog is
Think of it as a collection of articles for the community. In a way, a mini-JTAS, though covering all games and taking peeks behind the scenes.
Both!
We have been building up a little catalogue of background lore articles, but there will be all sorts of bits and pieces posted - little interviews, art pieces, book previews, general meandering thoughts...
MonsterX
Emperor Mongoose
Edit: I don't think we actually disagree on the main point, but still wrote a long post about planning for backwards compatibility of technology though it would probably be more sensible just to let it go.....
As far as my argument goes, it doesn't matter where the Imperial Army is - the problem is still the same - how do you keep an army at the front supplied and equpped? This is why there is an assumption of TL 12, which I also don't think is a good choice, but if you do go with TL 15 you are confronted with serious supply problems. I also don't think the Imperium would just go with TL 12 but just because capping the army at TL 12 isn't the best solution, it doesn't mean the problem goes away - they would just need a more nuanced approach to dealing with it.
Whether lower tech gear is compatible with higher tech gear (will those missiles fit in your launcher? Can you share targeting information readily? Are there compatibility issues with spare parts? have you practiced maneuvers with lower tech forces? do you have a good understanding of their capabilities, and what roles you can assign them, and what you need TL 15 forces for?) is in part a decision made during weapon design and procurement. That is, war planners would need to decide do you get ready for a fight in which you will act in a hopefully integrated way together with forces of other tech levels, and is your technology backwards compatible so you can share a supply chain? Obviously, you can't always do that: some systems just need to be pure high tech. But in other respects you can. It might reduce capabilities when you make the switch. Sometimes it won't.
I am asserting the Imperium would take this into account and plan for it. It would take months to get stuff from most TL 15 worlds to the front - unless the fighting is right near Rhylanor, and much of the route will be contested, if not outright blockaded. Of course they will have their supply trains and the Imperium would try to keep the TL 15 supply going. The Zhodani will have problems of their own; but just because the Zhodani have supply problems too doesn't mean the Imperium won't make an effort to resolve its problems. While I don't find it convincing that the Imperium would restrict any units to TL 12, I do think the prevalence of lower TL planets and troops equipped to those standards in many areas is something the Imperium would plan for. Obviously TL 15 is better than TL 12 gear, but at least what we can glean from the rules suggests tL 12 is far from useless against TL 14: this is of course a decision made in designing the setting but making direct analogies to contemporary US forces facing Civil War soldiers are not necessarily accurate. And not all of the gear a TL 15 unit needs to operate needs to be TL 15 to fulfill its roll: the Imperial Army could have TL 15 for the systems where TL gives a substantial edge, and lower tech for systems where it is less important.
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MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I think you are failing to realize the existence of "Fortress Worlds". Also, the entire battle plan for the Imperium is for a holding action all along the "Fortress Worlds". That is what they planned for. The plan if for them to be able to hold out long enough to receive reinforcements from the Deneb Depot first (12 jump roundtrip at J-4 or 3 months) followed by the main reinforcements which are coming all of the way from the Corridor Depot (26 jump roundtrip at J-4 or 6 months and 2 weeks). The Spinward Marches doesn't have a Depot. The entire strategy of the 3I is to bring in these supplies from outside of the Marches, from outside of the conflict area. So, the supplies for the TL-15 units, will be enough to hold out for reinforcements unless they are just completely overrun. Why will they be enough? Because that was the plan. They planned for it in advance.
As an aside... You do realize that if your troops use a TL-15 encryption system, then if part of their forces are reduced to using TL-14 gear, they can't communicate with their fellow soldiers. This is only one of the many many issues you are not taking into consideration in your viewpoint.
MonsterX
Emperor Mongoose
This is exactly the kind of thing I take into consideration. If TL 15 encryption end to end is decided to be what is needed, then they will have those available also to all units that need them, of whatever TL. They will have extras to give out to local forces. For certain key systems that act as force multipliers, they would do everything they can to make sure those high tech systems are where they are most needed, regardless of the general TL of the units. That is my point.
And where-ever they can they will make them backward compatible. Often processes like this mean upgrading the some parts of the old tech - like installing TL 15 comms on TL 14 battledress. But the key point here is where-ever they can. This also implies, where they can't, they won't.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
See you bolded part? That is the important part right there. They are not backwards compatible. With encryption it specifically says that lower TLs cannot break the encryption of higher TLs. That is just one example. I am sure people on here can cite hundreds of other examples. Also, where are you installing these TL-15 comms in TL-14 armor? On the front? Under fire? In the field? Can't do it beforehand or you would have had enough time to actually have TL-15 armor. Can a lower TL world install their comms on a higher tech level set of armor? I don't even know the answer to that one.
MonsterX
Emperor Mongoose
The answers to your questions are:
1.where-ever it fits - roll electronics comms to find the best spot
2. maybe - see the previous answer
3. probably you'll do it in the workshop where you do maintenance on the armour. However, roll a -4 to your electronics roll to install it in the field under fire
4. probably not, but a -2 to your electronics roll, see above
5. not sure what you mean but I think you don't make sense here. I am assuming you mean that for some reason you need to do this in the middle of a battle, which normally you would not. They would build the lower TL armour to be compatible with upgrades to higher standards, no doubt a clever tech could jury rig something otherwise, but they wouldn't have to if Procurement cared enough to get their shit together
6. yes - but you probably wouldn't do that except to jury rig a broken comms unit, just so you temporarily have something which works
collins355
Cosmic Mongoose
Yes indeed. Although Rob said to me it was re-specced by DGP after he had submitted the illustrations. It is a TL14 design in all its features and components, consistent with the MegaTrav design rules in "Referees Handbook", so someone on staff clearly re-did it as TL14 after Rob was done with it. Equally, the Astrin appears in print as a TL14 design, so clearly this was what the DGP publication team wanted those two vehicles to appear as.
collins355
Cosmic Mongoose
That's a little misleading, if you don't know the game. The Imperial Army *is* on the board at the start of the game/war. It just isn't a very large force compared to what appears later in the game (after 10 weeks delay) as reinforcements from elsewhere.
Although we can't ask the designers, it appears from the published setup that their concept was that in peacetime the Imperial Army has a relatively thin forward presence in the Marches around Regina, amounting to a single Corps on Efate fighting the Ine Givar insurgency, and 4 brigades and 4 regiments scattered on other worlds.
(The Imperial Marines have 8 regiments deployed. They're not Army though.
The Duke of Regina has his Huscarles regiment (6 battalions strong in 1105). But this is not a regular Army or Marine unit.)
The bulk of the troops available to Imperial commanders in peacetime are colonial units and PDFs. They are equipped to the TL of their homeworld.
There are also a number of mercenary units scattered about, e.g. a division of mercenaries has been employed by the Imperium on Efate to fight the Ine Givar. (arguably, the most important single unit in the game is a tiny elite TL16 mercenary unit (Darrians? from Vincennes??) which the Imperial player, if he is clever, can deploy at a particular point and taking advantage of the tech level difference can effectively stymie the entire Sword Worlds war effort)
Fweeba
Mongoose
I wish we knew more about this! That sounds like plot hook gold, and it'd be really interesting to see what the TL16 advances mean for conflict with lower tech forces that don't know much about it.
