Locutus9956
Mongoose
Ok as promised and to avoid totall disrailing the shadow thread, heres my thoughts on tactics for the new 'improved' Minbari.
Firstly Stealth HAS been weakened a fair bit now, but conversely the Minbari have reverted to their SFoS stats from the Tourney versions most people were using giving them more hit points and lower threshold values again. Theyre still fragile compared to everyone else but they do still have stealth, even if it is less potent. All things considered I dont actually think theyve actually been weakened alot from their tourney list version. They HAVE been weakened by the change a fair bit if you previously used the SFoS lists only though. That said if you think the SFoS Minbari were fair and balanced I raise my eyebrow at you in surprise and horror....
Now comparing them to the tournament list, if you play in the same manner you are quite frankly going to die horribly against any opponent who knows what hes doing with the stealth rules. Stealth is much weaker than it used to be, I wont even try to dispute this, its clearly true, but the point is that the SFoS list minbari dont NEED it as much if played well. Stealth is not the only advantage the Minbari have.
Now there are basically 8 Ways to reduce/negate an opponents stealth value in ACTA in Armageddon:
1.) Fighters performing scanners to full
2.) Scout lowering stealth
3.) Being a Shadow or Vorlon
4.) Having an HEL tracking system
5.) Fighters within 1" and ingoring it
6.) Being an Ancient and ignoring it
7.) Use emines that ingore stealth
8.) Simply get closer. Stealth is less effective at short range
Now number 3, and 6 theres not really alot you can do to counter other than 'blow up the entire enemy fleet' Simply put Minbari will have a tough time against Vorlons/Shadows and against Ancients are as good as dead (mind you so is just about ANYONE else who tries to take them on)
So then lets look at the other 6.
1.) Fighters on Scanners to Full: Fighters that do this lower your stealth by 1 but it is a fairly tough QC check so will need at least 3 or 4 fighters to give a good chance of succeeding (slightly easier for ISA or Vree but Vree dont tend to have many fighters anyway). They have to get within mini beam anti fighter range to do this but even if you shoot them down afterwards the reduction still stands as it takes effect when they move and lasts for the rest of the turn regardless. The only way to flat out stop them doing it is to move your fighters first and lock them in a dogfight. Thankfully Minbari have not only the best dogfighting fighters in the entire game but also one of the highest initiative bonuses so will be able to do this alot of the time provided they actually HAVE enough fighters.
And therein lies the problem. Nials and Tishats come in gigantic wings of 1 if bought seperately so buying independant fighter wings to defend against this is pretty stupid. Buying Morshins and Sharlins to get lots of fighters for free on the other hand is far from it. So basically counter tactic to 1) is buy a carrier (or even 2 in larger games) It may be whole battle point but its very very worth it. If you can justify the points cost personally sharlins are even betterm being excellent ships in their own right and having lots of fighters.
2.) Scouts Lowering Stealth: Again this is far from as effective as most people seem to think. Even a scout with an above average QC score will still not always succed in pulling this off for starters and most scouts are VERY VERY fragile. If your opponent takes a bunch of scouts this WILL give him a damn good chance of lowering your stealth but personally I find that againt Minbari your better off taking that 1 point of extra difficulty on the roll and have another attack ship or 2 that can attempt it!.
If your opponent DOES field scouts I would advise AGAINST killing them personally as in most cases theyre not the real threat. If someone tries to hit you with a sword and you blunt their sword they can still beat you do death with it, but cut off their arm and then I'd like to see them try
Scouts merely make other ships more effective. In almost every game Ive used them or played against them its proven far more effective to kill the ships theyre actually enhancing and thus remve the incoming fire completely than just knocking down the scouts and reducing it a bit.
Also most scouts have stealth of their own so chances are YOU will fail a few rolls and completely waste your firepower on a target that isnt that great a threat in its own right anyway! If you have the sky clear of fighters however DO attack enemy scouts with your fighters. They ignore the stealth at 1" and scouts tend to be very fragile and Nials will rip most to bits. Its worth noting that scouts DO lose their lock if destroyed so if you find the stealth on a big ship thats got lots of enemies boresighted/cafed on it, in that situation it might actually be worth targeting it before the other ships can fire. But normally, use your big guns on more dangerous enemies.
4.) Enemy has an HEL sensor array: At present this means one of two things. a) your oppenent is a Nemesis Advanced Destroyer b) your enemy is a lying cheating git. In the case of a) I would suggest laughing at your opponent as the Nemesis is frankly a pile of arse and you can take 2 sharlins for the price of one and will easily demolish it. If you take a Neroon to counter its Armageddonness though the joke will be on you..... in the case of b) the counter tactic is to beat your opponent round the head repeatedly with the rule book until he says sorry
5.) Fighters withing 1" Ingore Stealth: With their low hull values Minbari ships are actually very vulnerable to fighter attack. Gerally though theyre not SO fragile that fighers will do take down the larger ships before they can return fire unless they get very lucky. Even still they should be stopped asap.
Consider the following options. Firstly dogfight them with your own fighters (see 1)) secondly consider targeting them from outside of mini beam antifighter range before they make their attack runs. Dont do this at the expense of killing capital ships, but if your opponent fields ALOT of fighters it can be very worth it. Sure they will dodge a lot but you WILL kill some off. Thirdly, jump point bomb them. Some poeple view JP bombing as cheap dirty tactic. I frankly think thats a bit lame, its a perfectly legitimate tactic and its actually quite good at clearing out swarms of fighter (though they CAN still dodge, you will get ALOT of hits and kill many through sheer number of dodges they have to make). It should be noted that whilst I DO think JP bombing is a valid tactic I do personally think that opening a JP and then STAYING in hyperspace or coming in a different point and repeating ad infinitum IS rather lame and cheap. Actually I've just had an idea about that which I will post seperately shortly.
7.) Use Emines There isnt really a direct counter tactic to emines other than avoiding their range/arc or killing the ships carrying them (this IS worth doing if they take fragile emine loaded machines like Dag Kars but not worth doing soley for the porpose of removing emines for tougher targets like BinTaks and G'Quans (they will of course need killing but your probably better off killing the smaller swamry targets like K'Tans etc first to thin out the initiative numbers and reduce incoming fire (and the number of chances to roll stealth) your opponent gets).
When all's said and done its probably more important to take the emines out to defend your fighters though as Emines arent really that big a threat to capital ships (especially not the larger ones (with the exception of ship breaker emines but these don't ignore stealth so should be treated like any other weapon)
8.) Stealth is lessened at short range: The simple answer is of course to stay at long range (Minbari weapons in general are optimised for long range engagements anyway). Ok fair enough. Easier said than done though... First off even SLOW ships in ACTA can usualally get pretty close within a couple of turns on most table sizes from initial deployments. So heres a few tips for keeping the range up. Firstly (and this ones a no brainer) deploy as far back as possible. Secondly dont fly directly at your opponent, your weapons have pretty wide arcs so you can close slowly if you fly diagonally. Alot of Minbari ships have pretty decent aft weaponry so its even worth considering running away and shooting backwards (this is not usually a very good idea though as you do still have ALOT more firepower forwards and theres only so much table). All your ships have advanced jump engines. If the scenario allows you tu use hyperspace do so.
Dont jump into the middle of the enemy though. Use it to bring your reserves on behind the enemy lines prefereably far back from them. Try waiting a couple of turns till the enemy is halfway across the table to the rest of your fleet then jumping in, by the time they turn around and get back to you youll have had AGES to fire at them at long range. If they tunr around imediately they leave the REST of your ships behind them. Even when you cant use hyperspace, split your fleet as much as possible. Force your oppent to engage one half of your fleet or the other, leaving your OTHER half at long range. If you can do this AS WELL as using hyperspace it can be devastating (use hyperspace to reinforce the group your opponent doesnt close on etc).
Lastly try to deploy in parts of the table devoid of terrain, terrain allows your opponent to get in close without taking fire at long range on the way.
Well there you have it. Hope this is of some help to some of you
Happy now Seltsam? Feel free to debate and dispute any of this of course
Firstly Stealth HAS been weakened a fair bit now, but conversely the Minbari have reverted to their SFoS stats from the Tourney versions most people were using giving them more hit points and lower threshold values again. Theyre still fragile compared to everyone else but they do still have stealth, even if it is less potent. All things considered I dont actually think theyve actually been weakened alot from their tourney list version. They HAVE been weakened by the change a fair bit if you previously used the SFoS lists only though. That said if you think the SFoS Minbari were fair and balanced I raise my eyebrow at you in surprise and horror....
Now comparing them to the tournament list, if you play in the same manner you are quite frankly going to die horribly against any opponent who knows what hes doing with the stealth rules. Stealth is much weaker than it used to be, I wont even try to dispute this, its clearly true, but the point is that the SFoS list minbari dont NEED it as much if played well. Stealth is not the only advantage the Minbari have.
Now there are basically 8 Ways to reduce/negate an opponents stealth value in ACTA in Armageddon:
1.) Fighters performing scanners to full
2.) Scout lowering stealth
3.) Being a Shadow or Vorlon
4.) Having an HEL tracking system
5.) Fighters within 1" and ingoring it
6.) Being an Ancient and ignoring it
7.) Use emines that ingore stealth
8.) Simply get closer. Stealth is less effective at short range
Now number 3, and 6 theres not really alot you can do to counter other than 'blow up the entire enemy fleet' Simply put Minbari will have a tough time against Vorlons/Shadows and against Ancients are as good as dead (mind you so is just about ANYONE else who tries to take them on)
So then lets look at the other 6.
1.) Fighters on Scanners to Full: Fighters that do this lower your stealth by 1 but it is a fairly tough QC check so will need at least 3 or 4 fighters to give a good chance of succeeding (slightly easier for ISA or Vree but Vree dont tend to have many fighters anyway). They have to get within mini beam anti fighter range to do this but even if you shoot them down afterwards the reduction still stands as it takes effect when they move and lasts for the rest of the turn regardless. The only way to flat out stop them doing it is to move your fighters first and lock them in a dogfight. Thankfully Minbari have not only the best dogfighting fighters in the entire game but also one of the highest initiative bonuses so will be able to do this alot of the time provided they actually HAVE enough fighters.
And therein lies the problem. Nials and Tishats come in gigantic wings of 1 if bought seperately so buying independant fighter wings to defend against this is pretty stupid. Buying Morshins and Sharlins to get lots of fighters for free on the other hand is far from it. So basically counter tactic to 1) is buy a carrier (or even 2 in larger games) It may be whole battle point but its very very worth it. If you can justify the points cost personally sharlins are even betterm being excellent ships in their own right and having lots of fighters.
2.) Scouts Lowering Stealth: Again this is far from as effective as most people seem to think. Even a scout with an above average QC score will still not always succed in pulling this off for starters and most scouts are VERY VERY fragile. If your opponent takes a bunch of scouts this WILL give him a damn good chance of lowering your stealth but personally I find that againt Minbari your better off taking that 1 point of extra difficulty on the roll and have another attack ship or 2 that can attempt it!.
If your opponent DOES field scouts I would advise AGAINST killing them personally as in most cases theyre not the real threat. If someone tries to hit you with a sword and you blunt their sword they can still beat you do death with it, but cut off their arm and then I'd like to see them try
Scouts merely make other ships more effective. In almost every game Ive used them or played against them its proven far more effective to kill the ships theyre actually enhancing and thus remve the incoming fire completely than just knocking down the scouts and reducing it a bit.Also most scouts have stealth of their own so chances are YOU will fail a few rolls and completely waste your firepower on a target that isnt that great a threat in its own right anyway! If you have the sky clear of fighters however DO attack enemy scouts with your fighters. They ignore the stealth at 1" and scouts tend to be very fragile and Nials will rip most to bits. Its worth noting that scouts DO lose their lock if destroyed so if you find the stealth on a big ship thats got lots of enemies boresighted/cafed on it, in that situation it might actually be worth targeting it before the other ships can fire. But normally, use your big guns on more dangerous enemies.
4.) Enemy has an HEL sensor array: At present this means one of two things. a) your oppenent is a Nemesis Advanced Destroyer b) your enemy is a lying cheating git
. In the case of a) I would suggest laughing at your opponent as the Nemesis is frankly a pile of arse and you can take 2 sharlins for the price of one and will easily demolish it. If you take a Neroon to counter its Armageddonness though the joke will be on you..... in the case of b) the counter tactic is to beat your opponent round the head repeatedly with the rule book until he says sorry 5.) Fighters withing 1" Ingore Stealth: With their low hull values Minbari ships are actually very vulnerable to fighter attack. Gerally though theyre not SO fragile that fighers will do take down the larger ships before they can return fire unless they get very lucky. Even still they should be stopped asap.
Consider the following options. Firstly dogfight them with your own fighters (see 1)) secondly consider targeting them from outside of mini beam antifighter range before they make their attack runs. Dont do this at the expense of killing capital ships, but if your opponent fields ALOT of fighters it can be very worth it. Sure they will dodge a lot but you WILL kill some off. Thirdly, jump point bomb them. Some poeple view JP bombing as cheap dirty tactic. I frankly think thats a bit lame, its a perfectly legitimate tactic and its actually quite good at clearing out swarms of fighter (though they CAN still dodge, you will get ALOT of hits and kill many through sheer number of dodges they have to make). It should be noted that whilst I DO think JP bombing is a valid tactic I do personally think that opening a JP and then STAYING in hyperspace or coming in a different point and repeating ad infinitum IS rather lame and cheap. Actually I've just had an idea about that which I will post seperately shortly.
7.) Use Emines There isnt really a direct counter tactic to emines other than avoiding their range/arc or killing the ships carrying them (this IS worth doing if they take fragile emine loaded machines like Dag Kars but not worth doing soley for the porpose of removing emines for tougher targets like BinTaks and G'Quans (they will of course need killing but your probably better off killing the smaller swamry targets like K'Tans etc first to thin out the initiative numbers and reduce incoming fire (and the number of chances to roll stealth) your opponent gets).
When all's said and done its probably more important to take the emines out to defend your fighters though as Emines arent really that big a threat to capital ships (especially not the larger ones (with the exception of ship breaker emines but these don't ignore stealth so should be treated like any other weapon)
8.) Stealth is lessened at short range: The simple answer is of course to stay at long range (Minbari weapons in general are optimised for long range engagements anyway). Ok fair enough. Easier said than done though... First off even SLOW ships in ACTA can usualally get pretty close within a couple of turns on most table sizes from initial deployments. So heres a few tips for keeping the range up. Firstly (and this ones a no brainer) deploy as far back as possible. Secondly dont fly directly at your opponent, your weapons have pretty wide arcs so you can close slowly if you fly diagonally. Alot of Minbari ships have pretty decent aft weaponry so its even worth considering running away and shooting backwards (this is not usually a very good idea though as you do still have ALOT more firepower forwards and theres only so much table
). All your ships have advanced jump engines. If the scenario allows you tu use hyperspace do so. Dont jump into the middle of the enemy though. Use it to bring your reserves on behind the enemy lines prefereably far back from them. Try waiting a couple of turns till the enemy is halfway across the table to the rest of your fleet then jumping in, by the time they turn around and get back to you youll have had AGES to fire at them at long range. If they tunr around imediately they leave the REST of your ships behind them. Even when you cant use hyperspace, split your fleet as much as possible. Force your oppent to engage one half of your fleet or the other, leaving your OTHER half at long range. If you can do this AS WELL as using hyperspace it can be devastating (use hyperspace to reinforce the group your opponent doesnt close on etc).
Lastly try to deploy in parts of the table devoid of terrain, terrain allows your opponent to get in close without taking fire at long range on the way.
Well there you have it. Hope this is of some help to some of you
Happy now Seltsam?
Feel free to debate and dispute any of this of course 
