Armageddon Fighters

[Dennbok]

Please excuse my denseness, but it only just occured to me that given fighters now fire first, they are going to start being used to strip interceptors. In fact, they are going to do a lot less damage against ships with interceptors. While I'm sure that this was throughly playtested, I was wondering what you forumites thought about this?

 

[Calistan]

Can you choose to ignore an attack with your interceptor?

 

[Celisasu]

Can you choose to ignore an attack with your interceptor?

No.

 

[prelude_to_war]

No, interceptors can't be used selectively - they intercept as attacks are made.

I'd like to playtest the rule change but I like it. Fighters become viable threats and therefore needed for defense.

 

[Reaverman]

Surely thats good, your fighters can exhaust the interceptors in large ships. Leaving it defenceless, for the large weapons to hit. Remember, the interceptors are rolled per weapon attack. So 5 stands of Starfuries, are going to reduce a lot of interceptors (depending on the hull).

 

[alien027]

What is equal is not an avantage. If you are afraid of fighters, you enemies also. And thats the the tactic you must explode.

 

[Ripple]

Actually that would only be true if fighters were relatively equal, or defenses were equally effected. Some races are rated rather highly on the fact that they have interceptors and with this ruling they can be quickly stripped away even by poor fighters.

examples
EA - has a decent dogfighter(fast enough to react & bonus) in the starfury and a wonderful attack fighter in the thunderbolt as well as many ships which carry them. They can defend against being stripped by dogfighting and still have fighters for attack and depletion of enemy interceptors.

Abbai - while there is a good supply of fighters in the excellent carrier Milani they are too slow to keep up with charging ships and have no dogfight bonus. Few fighters can start launched so slowing the fleet as a whole to get a screen up. And finally the Kotha is a weak trait attack fighter so not threatening to most ships interceptor arrays. Abbai are highly rated on their interceptors which are now easily dealt with but are unable to significantly reduce others interceptors.

Brakiri - only partially interceptor dependant with a decent dogfighter. No bonus to dogfight but the speed sixteen means you can hold back and choose your dogfights/support options until you see which ships is under threat. If you have fighter superiority the falkosi is ap so it has a decent chance to get a hit and in wings will reduce the interceptors quickly. Add in a decent carrier and you have a strong contender.

Just saying that the idea that 'everyone can use this so its balanced' ignores the reality of the fleets. If fleets were balanced before this, and some fleets can make much better use of this than others, then balance has been lost.

Ripple

 

[Celisasu]

And if you're Vree and see enemy fighters on the board, you might as well make use of your SM to fly your fleet off the board before you become space garbage. :lol:

 

[Voronesh]

Actually i see a big advantage for Brakiri here.

If you get lucky you can advance yuor seriously fast fighters deplete interceptors and actually use the Gravitic Lance early in a turn......(yes the fighter doesnt have too many weapons but still......

Yes some races get big advantages with the rule others not necessarily.

My Narn like it. E-mines versus enemy fighters Frazis take off the ceptors and shipbreakers fire first......

 

[Wulf Corbett]

And if you're Vree and see enemy fighters on the board, you might as well make use of your SM to fly your fleet off the board before you become space garbage. :lol:

Yes, the fleet that was once virtually immune to fighters now becomes virtualy helpless before them...

Wulf

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Or, the fighters that were virtually worthless before the Vree onslaught now have at least a small chance to strike a blow before being shot out the sky.

After all, they only get one free shot before the Vree AF guns can shoot back. Any that survive can risk being destroyed again so they can shoot again, or they can bug out. Especially if the Vree player has other ships in range to fire at the fighters after they've had their turn.

 

[Silvereye]

Providing of course the paper thin hulls of the smaller Vree sucers (Hull 3 or 4 below Raid) can survive the fighters. I guess the resulting ship explosions may take some of the enemy fighters with them.

Their background would need to be re-written a bit (SFoS, Pg 143, para 5) and a carrier (or even a competent carrier) added to the fleet roster to bring more of those Tzymms along.

 

[katadder]

cant rmemeber but think the new Vree saucer may carry fighters, in fact am sure it does but could be wrong.

 

[Silvereye]

Well, if it is similar to the cylon base star it looks like it as modelled on, they carried a load of fighters.

 

[Ripple]

David, small chance? Are you familiar with the Vree? Smallish damage numbers and low hull.

Other ships in range? Look at the weapons range, five odd inches mostly. So as a fighter operator I start at one side an work my way inward. I will be assaulted by 2-3 dice of antifighter from the one ship that may or may not be in range to avenge his lost friend a turn.

I could have sworn I could have just cut and pasted this conversation from a previous thread. Seems there we agreed that the Vree had some issue here.

Ripple

 

[Triggy]

Maybe Vree will start to take Tzymm fighters from now on? They're perfectly good fighters but simply before there was no need to take them when they wouldn't do enough damage and the Vree ships would never get touched by enemy fighters.

 

[locarno24]

Good. It's always an imporvement when a rewrite makes you actually have to consider a ship type that was pointless before.....

And fighters pinning down defence grids sounds..appropriate, I think. As you say, it's a shame Abbai cop it in the neck, though.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Good. It's always an imporvement when a rewrite makes you actually have to consider a ship type that was pointless before.....

And fighters pinning down defence grids sounds..appropriate, I think. As you say, it's a shame Abbai cop it in the neck, though.

agreed

and in fact JMS said that pinning down defence grids is one of the primary jobs of starfuries

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Upping the ranges of every AF gun in the game might be a good idea, but on the whole I'm not too worried about fighter swarms. They were near useless before, now they have teeth. As it should be. I'll take my chances.

 

[Silvereye]

And, as always, it seems the best defense against fighters is other fighters.

I might try a couple of solitaire carrier clash simulations over the next few days to see what the new rules play like with a non-cheesy fighter swarm.

1st Idea (for tomorrow): EA v Centauri (5 Raid PL).
EA; 1x Avenger (4 Thunderbolt), 1x Nova, 1x Hyperion, 2x Artemis (Starfury unless noted otherwise)
Centauri; 1x Balvarix, 1x Sulust, 2x Vorchans, 1x Corvan, 1x Rutarian replacement wing, 1 x Sentri wing.

Any suggestions other have to the fleet make up will be considered, I want to keep the 2 fleet carriers in there and the scenario rules say only ships of equal to or below can make up the remainder of the fleet.