Are the new Cult rules workable?

[JonGeere]

Guilds, Factions & Cults present new rules on cults. First the good news. Lots of greats ideas are presented to make cults chime more with how they work in the world.

Unfortunately they appear, at first assessment, to be poorly thought through and presented. For example one of the new stats for cults presented (Affinity) marks the total amount of magic a cult can 'buy'. Yet some cult's magic blithely exhibit more than they are allowed given their Affinity stat. So why have the stat in the first place?

To confuse matters an example worshiper for the St Talor cult (Sir Huwayn page 131) seems to demonstrate a passing regard for what was written before. E.g. he casts the Warmth Rune spell using an Infinity Rune, he also can cast sorcery spells not provided by St Talor (or from the Abiding Book). If the example breaks the rules, why have the rules? Or have the Theology skill to cast that cult's Rune spells, but at least something that works.

Or am I reading the new rules all wrong?

 

[soltakss]

I think the Infinity Rune example makes a good point. Sir Huwayn the Smiling has the spells of Bladesharp, Light, Warmth and Multimissile, none of which are associated with the Infinity Rune in the RQ Rulebook. However, these spells are associated with St Talor, or rather they could be. So, we are moving away from "This Spell is cast with only this Rune" to "This spell can be available through this Rune" which I prefer.

He also has the Sorcery spells of Fly and Smother which are not available through St Talor, but that's the whole point of Sorcery - you can learn spells that are not part of your sect/cult/whatever. St Talor doesn't prohibit those spells so they can be learned.

I haven't gone through all the cults/guilds/factions in detail so I can't say that the spells available exceed the Affinity scores. I wouldn't be surprised though, statting up NPCs and organisations is notoriously difficult and getting every one right every time takes a lot of time.

 

[soltakss]

Looking through the examples, there are other errors. Initiative and Reputation are stated in an example as rounding up and the main rules says to round down. The example for the Runewheel has different Personalities to those given in the later writeup.

I went through the examples this morning and drew up a sample chartacter sheet in Excel. It probably needs tweaking slightly but covers most of the points.

The blank character sheet is at http://www.soltakss.com/gafsheet.xls and a sample writeup for the Brotherhood of the Wheel is at http://www.soltakss.com/BoWSheet.xls.

Basic Skills are calculated from the characteristics, Advanced Skills are only detailed if there is a tick beside them. The rest of the sheet consists of boxes of free text.

Please let me know your comments as to how to improve it, what is missing, what doesn't need to be there etc.

 

[Deleriad]

I haven't had a chance to look at the book in detail yet but my main question is are the changes made to divine magic (especially through the use of pact) likely to regarded as the official way such things work in Glorantha. (Clearly YGWV.)

My first instinct is that I prefer the presentation in GaF but it does quite majorly change the dynamics. Having just started running Blood of Orlanth and trying to do it quite close to the rules I don't feel like revising both NPCs and PC only to find that future published scenarios don't use GaF rules.

Anyway, kudos on first look. The only obvious thing I'm seeing a lack of is something explicitly allowing cults to attach rune spells to non-standard runes. e.g. An Orlanthi cult being able to cast Bladesharp through the Air Rune.

 

[Loz]

I haven't had a chance to look at the book in detail yet but my main question is are the changes made to divine magic (especially through the use of pact) likely to regarded as the official way such things work in Glorantha. (Clearly YGWV.)

My first instinct is that I prefer the presentation in GaF but it does quite majorly change the dynamics. Having just started running Blood of Orlanth and trying to do it quite close to the rules I don't feel like revising both NPCs and PC only to find that future published scenarios don't use GaF rules.

Anyway, kudos on first look. The only obvious thing I'm seeing a lack of is something explicitly allowing cults to attach rune spells to non-standard runes. e.g. An Orlanthi cult being able to cast Bladesharp through the Air Rune.

The rules changes are official. All Gloranthan cults, especially, will work in the way GF&C outline from now on.

I think that attaching a spell to a non-standard rune is absolutely permissible and could done either with a myth or simply through the spell's availability being given some context. For an Orlanthi cult - Barntar for instance - Bladesharp would be the way a plough, or scythe is kept sharp and so no reason why it shouldn't be available to associated cults.

 

[Deleriad]

The rules changes are official. All Gloranthan cults, especially, will work in the way GF&C outline from now on.

Excellent. One thing I have just noticed though is that there appears no longer to be a requirement to but the runelord/priest legendary ability. Is this an oversight or a change?

I do think the pact system will work a lot better but it does severely limit the amount of divine magic that it is feasible to know now and makes divine magic somewhat antagonistic to types of magic requiring Magic Points. It's quite a big change to Glorantha as done formerly in RQ.

I think that attaching a spell to a non-standard rune is absolutely permissible and could done either with a myth or simply through the spell's availability being given some context. For an Orlanthi cult - Barntar for instance - Bladesharp would be the way a plough, or scythe is kept sharp and so no reason why it shouldn't be available to associated cults.

That makes perfect sense to me, it's just nice to see it in print. Maybe you could make the cost of non-standard Rune Magic associations 1 Affinity Point higher or some such.

 

[Loz]

Excellent. One thing I have just noticed though is that there appears no longer to be a requirement to but the runelord/priest legendary ability. Is this an oversight or a change?

Its a change.

I do think the pact system will work a lot better but it does severely limit the amount of divine magic that it is feasible to know now and makes divine magic somewhat antagonistic to types of magic requiring Magic Points. It's quite a big change to Glorantha as done formerly in RQ.

I think that's a fair point, but Divine magic is now easier to get back. The intention was also to try to model the fact that Divine magic comes as the result of a relationship: the stronger that relationship (and it can be strengthened in several ways) then the easier it is regain a spell - and, the more POW dedicated to the pact, then the more magic available to you. It does mean that the more POW you dedicate to your pact the less you have for rune magic, but it then comes down to a question that always been fundamental to Gloranthans: how much do you want to emulate your god? If you really want that relationship to be evident, rune magic will be less important to you than Divine.

I can also reveal now that one of the intentions was to bring the magic systems of RQ and HQ into line. I worked with Jeff Richard at Moon Design closely on how magic should be reflected in Glorantha, so that there is, ostensibly, 'one world view'. Obviously RQ magic is mechanically different to HQ, but the relationship aspects are now clear and the way your magic develops is consistent (more or less) between both the Gloranthan roleplaying systems.

That makes perfect sense to me, it's just nice to see it in print. Maybe you could make the cost of non-standard Rune Magic associations 1 Affinity Point higher or some such.

I don't think you need to spend valuable affinity points on it. Just establish the connection within a myth or the cult framework's history.

 

[Deleriad]

On another topic, one personal little bugbear of mine is the standard initiation requirements. Earlier in the book various options for initiation requirements are discussed but in the detailed write up later the old "pass 5 tests of cult skills" requirement is presented.

Thing is, if you play by the book, becoming an initiate is next to impossible.

When you consider that an acolyte needs 5 skills at 50% then that acolyte's chance of passing an initiation test is roughly 3%. Even a Runelord's chance of passing an initiation test assuming 5 skills at 90% is only 50/50 or so.

Obviously you can just ignore the rules but that's not really the point.

Glad to see the common attempt at envisioning Gloranthan magic across systems and very glad to see the back of the legendary ability requirements for runemasters. The ability to do without physical runes is also good (though I do think Glorantha has room for physical runes as a rarity akin to powered crystals.)

I do think, however, that some old-time RQers are not going to like the limit to divine magic that pacts create and I suspect that many are going to start allowing some sort of pact extension mechanism almost immediately...

 

[RosenMcStern]

Three more questions about the changes introduced in Cults:

a) Is Lore (Teology) still used to determine casting success for divine magic? I think that using the Pact skill would be more appropriate.

b) Is it possible to change the divine spells that a character has available? Of course this should be possible only at a temple or shrine, but it is not specified by the rules in Cults.

c) Finally, there is still a heavy limit on the total number of points of Divine Magic that a character can have ready at a given moment. Shouldn't it be possible to augment the pact "pool" with Hero Points or in some other way?

 

[Loz]

a) Is Lore (Teology) still used to determine casting success for divine magic? I think that using the Pact skill would be more appropriate.

I see your point and considered it, but Pact is something different. Its not a measure of how well you use magic; its a measure of your depth of relationship with your god and your degree of devotion. That, in itself, does not confer a higher ability to cast divine magic successfully. Lore (Theology) however, is a measure of how well one understands the intentions and mythology of a god, and is therefore a more appropriate skill to use when casting.

b) Is it possible to change the divine spells that a character has available? Of course this should be possible only at a temple or shrine, but it is not specified by the rules in Cults.

Sure - as long as the spell is available, and one spends time in prayer and contemplation, then there's no reason why you couldn't alter the spells you have available.

c) Finally, there is still a heavy limit on the total number of points of Divine Magic that a character can have ready at a given moment. Shouldn't it be possible to augment the pact "pool" with Hero Points or in some other way?

No. And I think it would be a mistake to view divine magic as part of some form of 'spell armoury'. You are, in effect, channelling the power and ability of your god. It costs no MP to cast a divine spell, and the regain rules have been changed to reflect status within the cult and levels of devotion. Supplementing your pact with Hero Points negates the idea of dedicating your soul to the relationship with your god and could, in theory, lead to some characters stock-piling Hero Points to simply arm themselves to the teeth with as many divine spells as possible. The whole point of overhauling the cult rules in this way was to better reflect the nature of cults and provide mechanisms for showing devotion to a god and becoming more like your god through greater levels of devotion. Boosting your divine magic capability through Hero Points, or even some other mechanism, seems a bit too World of Warcraft to me.

 

[Deleriad]

a) Is Lore (Teology) still used to determine casting success for divine magic? I think that using the Pact skill would be more appropriate.

I see your point and considered it, but Pact is something different. Its not a measure of how well you use magic; its a measure of your depth of relationship with your god and your degree of devotion. That, in itself, does not confer a higher ability to cast divine magic successfully. Lore (Theology) however, is a measure of how well one understands the intentions and mythology of a god, and is therefore a more appropriate skill to use when casting.

I must admit that I've never liked Divine Spell casting being a lore but understand the reasoning here. Personally I use a skill called Invoke based on INT+POW for divine spell casting because it seems to me that understanding your deity is as much an act of faith (POW) as it is reasoning (INT).

b) Is it possible to change the divine spells that a character has available? Of course this should be possible only at a temple or shrine, but it is not specified by the rules in Cults.

Sure - as long as the spell is available, and one spends time in prayer and contemplation, then there's no reason why you couldn't alter the spells you have available.

Just to clarify, does this mean
a) a character may know 20 Magnitude of Divine Magic but only have a Pact of 10 so at any given time he has 10 Mag of Divine Magic from this total available in his pact. OR
b) If a character has a Pact of 10, knows 10 Magnitude of Divine Magic and wants to learn a new 3 Magnitude spell that he must forget 3 Magnitude permanently in order to learn this new magic.

c) Finally, there is still a heavy limit on the total number of points of Divine Magic that a character can have ready at a given moment. Shouldn't it be possible to augment the pact "pool" with Hero Points or in some other way?

No. And I think it would be a mistake to view divine magic as part of some form of 'spell armoury'. You are, in effect, channelling the power and ability of your god. It costs no MP to cast a divine spell, and the regain rules have been changed to reflect status within the cult and levels of devotion. Supplementing your pact with Hero Points negates the idea of dedicating your soul to the relationship with your god and could, in theory, lead to some characters stock-piling Hero Points to simply arm themselves to the teeth with as many divine spells as possible. The whole point of overhauling the cult rules in this way was to better reflect the nature of cults and provide mechanisms for showing devotion to a god and becoming more like your god through greater levels of devotion. Boosting your divine magic capability through Hero Points, or even some other mechanism, seems a bit too World of Warcraft to me.

[/quote]
I understand this argument but it won't be popular. I've been restatting the NPCs in Blood of Orlanth to update them based on the new rules and you quickly hit a real Magic Point crunch that tends to make Rune Magic and Divine Magic incompatible. You get the sight of Humakti sSwords only being able to only cast Bladesharp 4 once per day or Chalana Arroy healers struggling to cast Healing 6. I realise this was also the case with the original Dedicated POW system but that was universally unpopular for the same reason.

Personally I would hold open a legendary ability/heroqquest ability that enables people to hold either more Magnitude per Dedicated POW or increases the size of their Pact beyond just Dedicated POW. I wouldn't favour being able to simply increase it by adding Hero Points.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I understand this argument but it won't be popular. I've been restatting the NPCs in Blood of Orlanth to update them based on the new rules and you quickly hit a real Magic Point crunch that tends to make Rune Magic and Divine Magic incompatible. You get the sight of Humakti sSwords only being able to only cast Bladesharp 4 once per day or Chalana Arroy healers struggling to cast Healing 6. I realise this was also the case with the original Dedicated POW system but that was universally unpopular for the same reason.

If you are a Sword of Humakt and can 'Invoke' Truesword, Shield 3 and Sever Spirit once an hour, are you really bothered that you don't have so many MPs left for Bladesharp 4?

Personally I would hold open a legendary ability/heroqquest ability that enables people to hold either more Magnitude per Dedicated POW or increases the size of their Pact beyond just Dedicated POW. I wouldn't favour being able to simply increase it by adding Hero Points.

I think I'd prefer to go in the other direction, and allow Legendary Abilities or Heroquests which can increase your Magic Points. But I'm not sure its really needed if you use the new rules at the Runepriest/Runelord level. It is very Gloranthan that the closer a worshipper comes to his god, the easier it is to emulate the god's power, but the less flexible he becomes - magically as well as morally.

 

[Deleriad]

If you are a Sword of Humakt and can 'Invoke' Truesword, Shield 3 and Sever Spirit once an hour, are you really bothered that you don't have so many MPs left for Bladesharp 4?

Though that does lead to a good question. How do you incorporate 1 use magic in this system. Admittedly MRQ banned Sever Spirit anyway.

My inclination would be for magic like Sever Spirit to be either one use and its gone completely or to have it actually destroy pact/POW of its user.

I think I'd prefer to go in the other direction, and allow Legendary Abilities or Heroquests which can increase your Magic Points. But I'm not sure its really needed if you use the new rules at the Runepriest/Runelord level. It is very Gloranthan that the closer a worshipper comes to his god, the easier it is to emulate the god's power, but the less flexible he becomes - magically as well as morally.

I think that's a good description.
Three things come to mind. One is that because its quite limiting it will turn-off some players who don't like being limited in that way. The second thing is whether this is appropriate for a generic divine magic system - which is after all what this is meant to be. (E.g. would the pact system work for worship of the Roman gods?) A third thing is that to date MRQ has been good at removing the need for PCs to wander around with a bag full of MP storage devices. I think it would be mistake for them to creep back in.

 

[RosenMcStern]

I can see your points, folk, but I still have two doubts. And these two doubts are about character development at medium or high level.

a) Ok for Lore (Teology) as casting skill, but then you must clarify what this skill really means. Personally, I do not like the idea of Storm Bulls having to increase a knowledge skill to go berserker more easily. It is not something I would like to see in my game. An Invoke (deity) as suggested by Deleriad would be more appropriate.

b) I think a priest or acolyte can now function as effectively as a shaman by replenishing his spells with Pact rolls. But the main flaw of dedicated POW is still there, not corrected by the Pact mechanics: divine magic users have a fixed cap to their capabilities. Once you hit 95% with your Pact and lore skills, and you have dedicated your POW to your god entirely, you have no room for effective improvement. At all. No improving your casting chance, and no improving the magnitude of your stored divine magic.

Note also that smart players will probably dedicate their entire POW to Divine magic from start: it only takes a magic point matrix to make you able to cast rune magics spell again. You may want to save a couple points of POW to get new gifts as soon as they become available, but that's it.

The end result will be that, at high level, priests will hunt power point sources and start increasing their rune magic portfolio, as they cannot improve any longer on the divine side. Which does not drive a player towards good impersonation of your character, IMO.

I can understand that you are afraid of seeing priests with 50+ points of Divine Magic stored, but wouldn't limiting the total magnitude of available divine spells to Pact/10 be better than saying "Your total limit is your POW"? It reminds me of old RQ3 sorcery where a sorcerer's actual power was not tied to his skill with spells or manipulations skills, but only on his INT and available Intellect and Power spirits.

 

[Deleriad]

Personally, I do not like the idea of Storm Bulls having to increase a knowledge skill to go berserker more easily. It is not something I would like to see in my game.

Slightly forking the discussion but it might be nice to have variability in how to cast divine magic. E.g. I could imagine an Urox worshipper having some sort of Berserkergang skill (STR+POW) that is used to BECOME Urox and therefore for casting divine magic. It's in the area of fiddly house rule mechanics but it seems wrong for a pure lore skill to be the skill of becoming your god while the pure logic of sorcery is based on INT+POW...

An Invoke (deity) as suggested by Deleriad would be more appropriate.

b) I think a priest or acolyte can now function as effectively as a shaman by replenishing his spells with Pact rolls. But the main flaw of dedicated POW is still there, not corrected by the Pact mechanics: divine magic users have a fixed cap to their capabilities. Once you hit 95% with your Pact and lore skills, and you have dedicated your POW to your god entirely, you have no room for effective improvement. At all. No improving your casting chance, and no improving the magnitude of your stored divine magic.

I find that quite a compelling argument. Under the present situation you can become an initiate, dedicate all your POW and that's it. There's nowhere to go but heroquesting. I can see a good argument for extending a priest's pact storage size - as it were. Obviously one way is through an allied spirit but that's not really a generic concept. I quite like RosenMcStern's argument for Pact/10 in additional storage. There are other possibilities, e.g. being able to Dedicate stats other than POW. Dedicating some of your STR to a deity seems quite flavourful though more of a Sword & Sorcery demon pact than Glorantha.

As I say, I've been revising NPCs in Blood of Orlanth and this pact upper limit is really, really noticeable and I find myself chafing at it. I like the fact that we've moved on from Monty Haul divine magic but I would like more flexibility at the upper end.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Though that does lead to a good question. How do you incorporate 1 use magic in this system. Admittedly MRQ banned Sever Spirit anyway.

I thought MRQ had dropped the whole concept of one-use divine magic?

Three things come to mind. One is that because its quite limiting it will turn-off some players who don't like being limited in that way. The second thing is whether this is appropriate for a generic divine magic system - which is after all what this is meant to be. (E.g. would the pact system work for worship of the Roman gods?) A third thing is that to date MRQ has been good at removing the need for PCs to wander around with a bag full of MP storage devices. I think it would be mistake for them to creep back in.

True, it is a Gloranthan idea. But it doesn't mean it cannot be used generically. The whole concept is based on the dedication of your soul (a finite resource), so it could easily model demonology for example. Indeed the mechanics were originally designed for Elric of Melnibone.

The pact system is not quite as applicable for portraying historical polytheism, since those cultures emphasise the worship of any and all gods - not tying yourself to a single one. Instead it would be better suited to modelling the miracles of a monotheist Christian saint... Unless of course, you defined the Pact as linking the worshipper to an entire Pantheon or Religion.

Say we take a hindu warrior and grant him a Pact (Hinduism) skill. In such a case you may ultimately be limited in how far you can grow spiritually before reaching the point of enlightenment (i.e. once you've dedicated all your POW, you can only progress by apotheosis to a demigod), but in the meantime you could pray to any gods in your pantheon and cherry pick their divine magic to aid you on a particular quest. In this case it would be massively flexible - and therefore more attractive to players.

Or you could take another approach and say that Rune Magic doesn't exist in your generic setting. Then there would be fewer player issues against the Divine Magic path. :wink:

Ultimately though, you should be thinking about things from a role-playing perspective. Even if apotheosis can be a very satisfying conclusion to a PC career, why should an upper cap to their Divine Magic be the end of their character's growth? They can have other plot-driven objectives to satisfy. Power is not just rated in personal magic... the political and military arenas are, in the end, far more world shaking.

Note also that smart players will probably dedicate their entire POW to Divine magic from start: it only takes a magic point matrix to make you able to cast rune magics spell again. You may want to save a couple points of POW to get new gifts as soon as they become available, but that's it.

The amount of POW a worshipper can dedicate to his pact should be limited by his cult rank, thus preventing novice PCs from starting out with access to the big spells - and incidentally leaving them with enough MPs to use Rune Magic as they grow in experience. Also from a Gloranthan perspective you could tie dedication of POW to performing a cult heroquest, and therefore govern the rate they dedicate their POW that way.

 

[Deleriad]

I thought MRQ had dropped the whole concept of one-use divine magic?

It has but largely it did it by putting a big pencil line through 1-use divine magic.

Or you could take another approach and say that Rune Magic doesn't exist in your generic setting. Then there would be fewer player issues against the Divine Magic path. :wink:

Though technically any magic tradition that is powered by magic points will be in tension with pacts that eat up your Magic Points.

Ultimately though, you should be thinking about things from a role-playing perspective. Even if apotheosis can be a very satisfying conclusion to a PC career, why should an upper cap to their Divine Magic be the end of their character's growth?

I think the issue is related to your point below. It feels wrong that within 5 minutes of being initiated, a character can be as magically strong (in terms of dedicating his pow) as he can ever be. Relating size of pact to either cult rank or to the actual skill itself seems like a good idea.

The amount of POW a worshipper can dedicate to his pact should be limited by his cult rank, thus preventing novice PCs from starting out with access to the big spells

Definitely agree. However I do think that there shouldn't be an upper cap on the size of a pact OR, that the higher your pact skill the more bang for a buck you can get out of your pact.

If you don't do that you'll simply end up with priests enchanting divine objects and rebuilding their POW afterwards so that they can, effectively, extend their pact through magic items. The most powerful priests will be the ones with the most trinkets and that would be a shame.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Deleriad wrote:

If you don't do that you'll simply end up with priests enchanting divine objects and rebuilding their POW afterwards so that they can, effectively, extend their pact through magic items. The most powerful priests will be the ones with the most trinkets and that would be a shame.

But yet again, this situation can be seen to actually model real practice... The one that springs to mind is Religious Daoism which is heavily based upon enchanted items and written charms.

The trouble is that no system is going to fit all situations, it's going to be the best compromise that covers the most situations that wins.

 

[Loz]

I think I have a real issue with building-in mechanisms to enable continued accumulation of power simply so that characters can bypass finite resources and upper levels. If you become a rune priest with, say 18 points of Divine Magic and 18 points of dedicated POW to your cult, and 100% in your Pact skill, you have proved ultimate dedication; you are are close to your god as you can possibly get. Why should there be mechanisms to allow you to progress beyond that? By that stage, you're probably wandering around acting like a god anyway.

I think the issue is related to your point below. It feels wrong that within 5 minutes of being initiated, a character can be as magically strong (in terms of dedicating his pow) as he can ever be. Relating size of pact to either cult rank or to the actual skill itself seems like a good idea.

It may feel wrong to you, but that doesn't necessarily negate the concept behind it. Dedicating all your POW to a pact is the act of ultimate devotion. Its rejecting one path in favour of another. Its a symbolic act that says to everyone around 'I want to be like my god. I want to embrace everything about him. Other paths are false; I have found my truth'. Remember that the magnitude of Divine Magic you can learn is limited by your cult rank, so you still need to progress through your cult to become as magically powerful as you can. Dedicating all your POW to a pact might be rash, but from a roleplaying perspective, if a character did that in one of my games, I'd be saying to myself 'wow'! Road to Damascus... and that opens-up all kinds of roleplaying possibilities.

And how about Pacts outside of a cult? You can have as many pacts as you want, and dedicate POW to multiple deities. A pact doesn't need to be formed as part of cult initiation. I've used this in some games I've run - characters have been forced to form a Pact in exchange for something - even a tokenistic pact based on 1 dedicated POW, but a mortgaging of the soul nonetheless. However, a character who has dedicated all his POW to one god is immune from that; his entire soul is dedicated to one god. That can be a good, protective thing. And, some gods/cults might require a large dedication, because they're greedy...

But I do agree that both Deleriad and Rosen have raised some good points - some very good ones - on a number of issues that I'm going to take away and mull-over. So thank you both for an encouraging debate!

 

[Deleriad]

And how about Pacts outside of a cult? You can have as many pacts as you want, and dedicate POW to multiple deities. A pact doesn't need to be formed as part of cult initiation. I've used this in some games I've run - characters have been forced to form a Pact in exchange for something - even a tokenistic pact based on 1 dedicated POW, but a mortgaging of the soul nonetheless.

Agreed with that. I have been looking into ways of letting characters dedicate other parts of their body too. Dedicating STR or CON to particularly foul demons seems good to me.

While you're here two quick questions.

Are you now able to dedicate all your POW to a pact or do you need to keep 1 POW back?

Can you *know* more divine magic than you can store in your Pact at once. E.g. If you have a Pact of 7 and know 15 Mag of Divine Magic can you keep 7 in Pact then swap things in and out through the usual mechanic?

Should say that ever since I read the Elric book I've been using pacts in my Gloranthan campaign. I think they're a great idea, just wary about what happens when you top out.