Anyone tried those Critical Hit card decks with Conan?

[djd]

I'm going to try those Paizo D20 Critical Hit card decks in my game. Has anyone else tried these?

I think it's the former Rolemaster player in me that loves that sort of hit location detail :wink: I thought they might be fun and not entirely out of keeping with the splatter expected in a Conan game?

 

[Azgulor]

No, at least not yet.

Currently, I'm utilizing Torn Asunder for gory-crit-goodness. However, I'll be trying these soon with my Pathfinder game and they may work their way into my Conan game.

 

[djd]

Torn Asunder sound good - but doesn't seem to be available anymore

I'm slightly disapointed with the Crit Hit deck - doesn't have the juicy detail of the old Rolemaster tables that I loved so much...

 

[Azgulor]

Nor did I think it would.

Torn Asunder is what you want if you're looking for something near the visceral Rolemaster experience. Not sure if it exists in PDF form but if you can find a copy, pick it up!

 

[djd]

Found one on ebay. Thanks!

 

[djd]

They're just not descriptive enough for me - with quite a few of them you're still left no wiser as to where you've hit. I think more description and less extra effects (such as stat damage) would have been useful. A matter of taste probably :wink:

 

[Supplement Four]

They're just not descriptive enough for me -

This may or may not help.

In my upcoming game, I'm going to have the players actually roleplay out the fights. I don't want them to just roll the dice. I want them to tell me what their character is doing. Is he taking his sword, in both hands, and swinging it over his shoulder? Is he using one hand to jab the point towards the target? Is he using a backhand stroke, trying to get inside the target's arm and strike his ribs? Is he doing a downward slash at the target's thigh?

This is no different than having players speak in character or tell the GM exactly what they are doing when they have their characters pick a lock or look through the key hole.

The point is: Knowing exactly the way the strike is made will make some critical hits obvious.

 

[Pascalahad]

I used the cards in my last game, and it felt in fact very awkward to suddenly pull out the deck for such a rare instance.

Next time I intend to use the "Warrior's companion" critical wound system.

 

[Der Rote Baron]

I am not a big fan of these critical hit rules. I do like critical hits that do more damage and I think it is okay if PCs take permanent damage instead of dying but otherwise they are only important for the PCs - and hindering them.
"The Nemedian Bowman goes down with a stream of blood gushing out of his severed arm!" "Great flavour text!"
"Your Nemedian Bowman is going down with a stream of blood gushing out of his severed arm - please erase a Fate Point for 'Left for Dead' and make sure to note that you have one arm less." "Hand me a ney character-sheet."

Who cares if some nameless npc-mook loses a STR-Point permanetly? Or a leg? Or an arm? There are more to come anyway and I would not use him anyway a second time.

And I don't think it fits the genre for the heroes: Scars - YES! Cut off arms and legs? NO!

 

[Jacek]

I am not a big fan of these critical hit rules. I do like critical hits that do more damage and I think it is okay if PCs take permanent damage instead of dying but otherwise they are only important for the PCs - and hindering them.
"The Nemedian Bowman goes down with a stream of blood gushing out of his severed arm!" "Great flavour text!"
"Your Nemedian Bowman is going down with a stream of blood gushing out of his severed arm - please erase a Fate Point for 'Left for Dead' and make sure to note that you have one arm less." "Hand me a ney character-sheet."

Who cares if some nameless npc-mook loses a STR-Point permanetly? Or a leg? Or an arm? There are more to come anyway and I would not use him anyway a second time.

And I don't think it fits the genre for the heroes: Scars - YES! Cut off arms and legs? NO!

Pretty good remark. I believe it's somewhere on the boards already but that is the point of the whole concept of permanent damage. It serves best when it's applied at one of decisive moments of an adventure / campaign but utilised constantly can lead to much too frequent change of the game cast.

 

[djd]

I think that's it's something fate points could be used to prevent in the PC's case. My players do like to know which bit of an NPC they've chopped off though...

 

[Pascalahad]

In my campain, PC wounds are never permanent. Even with the critical table from the Warrior's Companion, as far as PCs go, it will stop before they would be crippled permanently. Conan in the stories suffered from numerous impressive wounds, which doesn't seem to impair him in subsequent stories. And only "named" NPCs can use this table, grunts do not.

 

[Pascalahad]

I think what I try to say is, life is dangerous, why not the game

Because it's, well, a game ?

I guess that's the difference. My games never try to emulate life (I see no point in that), they try to emulate novels/movies/comics...

That doesn't necessarily prevent deaths among characters, shit can happen, but at least I try to make these dramatic moments meaningful, not just the result of random lucky shot by some thug.

 

[kintire]

I'm slightly disapointed with the Crit Hit deck - doesn't have the juicy detail of the old Rolemaster tables that I loved so much...

That juicy detail does have its problems. My chief issue with Rolemaster... One of my chief issues with Rolemaster... Among my many issues with Rolemaster... ahem.

Anyway the problem with the described critical hits is that it is completely inflexible. As long as your target is standing in the open taking the hits it is fine, but as soon as he is doing anything else it all goes south. The orc who was trying to escape by crawling down a small crack, and I came up as he was halfway in and hit him on the side of the head... through six feet of rock. The archer who was shooting from behind a wall displaying his head and shoulders and took a return fire hit to the leg. No I think excessive description can go wrong.

 

[kintire]

That what I saying, where the adventure, if the GM is keeping them safe, where is the differance between right and wrong if the Heroes only survive because the GM is allowing them to.

I think the difference between right and wrong isn't really at issue here...

It is certainly true that no game is exciting without risk, but that can go too far. D20 in general and Conan in particular are supposed to be about people doing dangerous things: adventure. If doing anything dangerous leads to mutilation or death, pretty soon no one will do anything dangerous, and then where's the fun?

 

[djd]

I just think the extra threat adds to the excitement -plus I've always hated that D&D hit point thing where characters just get chipped to death...

 

[kintire]

I tend to view permenant injury as that exact same effect on a campaign scale...

 

[Leo]

In my current Conan campaign, we are using the Paizo critical hit and fumble decks and having great fun with them.

I use an account-type system to keep track:

PC draws a card after scoring a critical hit: 1 in PC's favour
PC voluntarily accepts a critical fumble card when they have a confirmed fumble roll (see below): 1 against PC
GM draws a card after scoring a critical hit on PC: 1 against PC
GM takes a critical fumble card when NPC has a confirmed fumble roll (see below) against PC: 1 in PC's favour

The GM automatically uses a critical hit card against a PC if they have a least one card total in their favour. The PC can always voluntarily accept a critical card against themself if they want to build up credit. If no critical hit card is involved, the btb critical damage multiplier still applies.

Example:

Asrod scores a critical on two occasions in tonight session, and both times he opts to use a critical hit card.
In the same session, Shrit Andaka makes a critical fumble. He has never used a Paizo card to benefit himself before, so the GM cannot demand that a critical fumble card be used against Shrit. However, Shrit's player decides to accept the card voluntarily.
Also in this session, an NPC scores a critical against Zingelito. Zingelito has never taken a Paizo card, but he wants to build credit, so he allows the GM to use a critical hit card against him.

At the end of the session, Asrod has 2 cards in his favour, and both Shrit and Zingelito have one card against them.


In the next session, an NPC scores a critical hit against Asrod. Since Asrod has 2 cards in his favour, he cannot avoid a Paizo card, so the GM draws one. Now Asrod (if he survived) only has one card in his favour.
Another NPC scores a critical hit against Shrit. Shrit has a credit of one card used against himself, so he can prevent the GM from using a card. This will bring Shrit's 'balance' back to zero.
Meanwhile, Zingelito makes a critical fumble. He can prevent the GM from using a card (bringing his 'balance' to zero), or he can tell the GM to go for it, knowing that it will be nice to have 2 cards against himself in credit.

I've made this sound more complicated than it is. I just have a piece of paper with two columns and each character's name. Whenever a card is used against a PC, I put a tick in the 'Used Against' column. Whenever a PC uses a card for their own benefit, I put a tick in the 'Cards Taken' column. If a PC has more ticks in 'Used Against,' they can protect themselves from fumble and critical cards. In practise, some PCs are very daring and gladly volunteer to suffer the consequences of the cards, knowing they will get to use them for their own benefit as a result. Other players are more conservative and almost never use cards for themselves because they fear having cards used against them.

As for critical fumbles, we use a confirmation system. If a PC rolls a one, he or she then rolls to hit again (same attack bonus, etc.). If they miss, it's a critical fumble. However, if no critical fumble card is used against them, the PC suffers no ill-effect from the fumble (asside from an embarassing description of their failure by the GM).

 

[djd]

I understand what you're doing but it sounds like a game within a game to me. All I want my critical hit add-on to do is to provide a bit of instant cinematic detail for the game - a bit of splatter really, plus something to move away from being chipped to death...

I'm going to try another couple of critical hit systems Torn Asunder and Critical Matters to see if they provide the solution I'm after

 

[Edhel]

I'm going to try those Paizo D20 Critical Hit card decks in my game. Has anyone else tried these?

Yes, our group has used them a long time (first the originals and now the pathfinder ones which are more suited to our houseruled version). They've been a great and easy-to-use tool bringing lots of excitement to criticals. I and Majestic7 have posted about our house rules multiple times on this forum so I won't go deep into that. Let's just say we've done away with the instakill from damage over the damage threshold. A hit turns into a critical if the target fails his Fort save against massive damage.

The golden wine of Xuthal and demonic pacts have been very useful alleviating the rare permanent injuries and ability drains. E.g. our alchemist got slashed across the eyes and was blinded so he ended up on a path of corruption, sorcery and insanity through his demonic dealings.

So yes, they're great fun and bring surprising twists. I can't recommend them enough.