Anyone got Argos & Zingara?

[VincentDarlage]

BTW, can you say if there's more information about Tortage in the book besides the map?

Yes, there is, but the article I mentioned has more information - and a more accurate map, so it is still worth buying the S&P magazine even if you have Argos & Zingara.

 

[MadDog]

Yes, there is, but the article I mentioned has more information - and a more accurate map, so it is still worth buying the S&P magazine even if you have Argos & Zingara.

Wait a minute - you are saying Mongoose published a less accurate map than an already exisiting one (from one of thier own publications) ?

Mad Dog

 

[Halfbat]

Tortage, including a map, was covered in issue 24 (July 2005). It was a five page article (written by me) in the penultimate issue of the printed magazine (before it went to PDF format).
To the best of my knowledge, it does not appear in the Compendium.

is it ever going to come out on pdf, at all do you know?

 

[VincentDarlage]

is it ever going to come out on pdf, at all do you know?

I don't know. The magazine in print is worth buying, though.

 

[Bregales]

is it ever going to come out on pdf, at all do you know?

I don't know. The magazine in print is worth buying, though.

What is I think implied but not stated in Mr. Darlage's reply is that the S&P article has a wealth of info for GMs. The city stat index is replicated from the S&P article into A&Z. The writeups are not cut & paste however. I would say the writeup of Tortage is great for players, at first look (just got my copy today) I don't see anything GMs would scream about players reading over, at least for the city, whereas the S&P article has a nice selection of adventure hooks at it's end for GMs to develop.

With everything he has written, I'm very happy with this book that Mr. Darlage wrote up. What dismays me is the lack of game 'meat' (game stats). Note that this book is similar to the Stygia sourcebook in how it's formatted, which is also a fantastic book. The feats at the end of the book look great, the NPC types (soldiers, merchants, arbalesters) are nicely made up. But doing a cover to cover skim of the book I don't see defining notes on character builds, although for each of the existing character classes the book suggests you refer to the source book (Hyborias' F- books, Pirate Isles for example). In these cases that's to be expected, rather than replicate material partially out of context which is covered in another existing book. For example, the gladiators in the Argos section of the book are nicely written about, but I didn't see any info on how to build them until I came upon the 11th paragraph (found middle of first column, p15) where it says "For ease of use, presume one school teaches a 'barbarian' style of combat..., another teaches a 'soldier' style." A similar obfuscation exists in the writeup on the Zingaran knights (in the chapter "Zingaran Military" pp60-62). Great writeups, but no reference for a player wanting to make up one of the three types of Zingaran knights, although one early sentence stating that they're unlike their Poitanian counterparts, for which I may infer opening my Aquilonia sourcebook. Note that in Stygia, there is a build for a Lord of the Black Ring prestige class. Looking to the back of the book, you could look over the NPC builds for knights (pp89-90; no gladiators statted). So either a new GM or player, or one who hasn't played the game/read the rules books in a long time, will be at a bit of a loss.

That said, I want to re-emphasize the great writeups on these two kingdoms (the honour codes, the cultural assimilitudes, the geographical writeups/cities). But in a trend all too common in Wizards of the Coast's deedle dee releases, there are plenty of references to other Conan line books, where you will need to go to to look up statistical information of one sort or another. But in terms of reading about these lands, very nicely done.

Maybe I can get a better understanding once I've read the book, this was just a cover-to-cover assessment. Also, I've been off these boards for a long time, so I may have missed some things covered in other threads, in which case my bad. Am very happy for these regional books, and again very happy Mr. Darlage wrote them!

 

[VincentDarlage]

A large part of that is due to current editorial policy - in order to keep reprint material down, I am to refer to other books instead. Keep in mind also that sixty five pages were edited out of the book, including new combat manouevres and a lot of the game-statty stuff. I am told these elements were retained for future S&P releases, though.

I am glad you liked the book overall, though. I hope I get to write more of them.

 

[toothill man]

so do we all vincent are their maps in this book and if so of what thank you in sdvance

 

[Bregales]

So say I, Vincent. Your work has been top notch. Maybe it's better we don't know what else was omitted, it seems extremely contrary to the logic of a game to omit the game play facets in a product release, maybe they're just trying to cover their RuneQuest game conversion. :roll:

I hate this trend I've seen other game companies adopt recently (White Wolf's Pendragon game: their newest release is a fantastic campaign book at just under 500 pages, but they omitted 1)an index and 2)almost all the NPCs Greg Stafford had written up for the campaign, both of which have to be found hidden in the company website, printed and stuffed into the book). Which of course needs mention of that concerted work Yogah of Yag did in creating all those indexes for so many of the releases for this game. As a mere consumer I find this practice of omission questionable if not shoddy, but my main purpose in writing back was to give my appreciation for the work in general, and to voice how much I love the Stygia and Aquilonia books (including the Thunder River h/c), and especially The Road of Kings gazetteer!

Well, I'm in the process of trying to re-familiarize myself with the AE system in the hopes of starting another gaming group, which will meet infrequently at best, but at least we're all Howard and Conan enthusiasts. I reminded myself this morning that the latest two releases, Stygia and A&Z, are great for passive hobbyists as much if not more than for role-players. Anyways, no matter what the continued support and releases of the Conan line keeps both current gamers and those like me hoping to get back into things very appreciative.

Once again, thanks much!

 

[Malovech]

For anyone who wants to know, the Argos and Zingara PDF is now available at www.drivethrurpg.com, as is the Reavers of the Vilayet adventure.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Thanks for the nod, Bregales! 8)
I just ordered A&Z and Tower of the Elephant, which will be the first scenario I've purchased from The 'Goose. I look forward to running it.
A&Z will get entered into the Master Index in the next 1-2 weeks, whenever I get it, and if there's any material in the scenario to include I will do so. I was a hair's breadth from getting Shazidar, but I dodged it at the last moment. Maybe next time. I will definitely get Shem and possibly the Compendium by JAN or FEB.

http://www.fidnet.com/~bushfarm/wnvb/indexonline.html

On a side-note, I've also done a Master Index for the Slaine RPG, too.

http://www.fidnet.com/~bushfarm/wnvb/slaine001.html

As a bonus on the Downloads page, I had a try at creating a new monster:

http://www.fidnet.com/~bushfarm/wnvb/rhizan.html

 

[Arcadayn]

I agree with Bregales that the omission of indices in books is incrediblly annoying. Especially when the table of contents is extremely vague. However, I do like the trend toward more information and less games stats. How many more feats and combat maneuvers do we really need?

 

[Bregales]

Well, that's a good point. While I do think that a novice, maybe wanting to make up his first charaacter as an Argossian or Zingaran, may be very confused if he picks this book up first or with the AE book, or maybe a new GM may be a little confused too.

But this does seem to be par for the course, and as TSR did this way back when with their first deendee editions it's nothing new.

(Honestly, I never liked Combat Maneouvers myself and told my first group of players to just ignore it, and will probably do the same again if/when the new group gets started). As for feats, I think at one point I tried scanning the feats from the various books I'd had at one point and stopped when it got to 10 megs, so I just made a word or excel table and listed them instead). At least, I think I made a table, too little sleep last night. :|

Anyways, Yogah's indexes are top notch, and definitely worth downloading or going to his website to look up something you're looking for. Thanks for continuing the indexes!

 

[Halfbat]

Anyway, on Argos and Zingara.... (which will be useful) a map in the book would have been helpful but I can't find one.

So.....

Has any got, or does anyone know of any more detailed maps of Argos and Zingara which list the locations of the towns and manors listed in the book? I can only reliably locate 3-4 (those at the mouths of rivers, mainly) and possibly Tortage.

Thanks

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Just got it today, and started entering it into the Master Index. (I should be finished in a day or two.) Thus far, it looks quite well done. Good job once again, Mr. Darlage! at on back:

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Any more info on the delightfully fiendish Twelve-Eyed God (A&Z, p. 70b, infra)? What is the source of this Isle and its supposed inhabitant? Pastiche, comics?

 

[VincentDarlage]

Any more info on the delightfully fiendish Twelve-Eyed God (A&Z, p. 70b, infra)? What is the source of this Isle and its supposed inhabitant? Pastiche, comics?

Conan the Buccaneer, by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Any more info on the delightfully fiendish Twelve-Eyed God (A&Z, p. 70b, infra)? What is the source of this Isle and its supposed inhabitant? Pastiche, comics?

Conan the Buccaneer, by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter.

Thanks for the quick answer! 8)

 

[Maximo]

Could someone (a playtester or simmilar) please tell me which were the detailed missing contents from Argos & Zingara?

The book is quite cool, but it is obvious that lots of stuff were taken away.

Anyway, I remember Vincent told me I would like the Zingaran swordplay section in one discussion about fencing, and I must say he was right. 8) Love those new rules, but even more the fact that, if I guess correctly, Vincent's inspiration for this kind of fencing is the "Verdadera Destreza" (perhaps in English it is translated as "True Art"), the fencing style used in Spain during XVII century.

As in my campaign I depicted some Zingaran fencing masters fighting style as this, I am quite delighted.

Solid book, only bad point is the loss of material to editing policies.

 

[MGBM]

Could someone (a playtester or simmilar) please tell me which were the detailed missing contents from Argos & Zingara?

Well, according to Vincent in this very same thread a few replies back:

A large part of that is due to current editorial policy - in order to keep reprint material down, I am to refer to other books instead. Keep in mind also that sixty five pages were edited out of the book, including new combat manouevres and a lot of the game-statty stuff. I am told these elements were retained for future S&P releases, though.

 

[toothill man]

but how many maps survived the cull guys :shock: