Anti-glorantha rant to moongose.
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hanszurcher
Mongoose
Psuedosirus said:
Not every one thought the earth was flat...some thought it was a mountain rising out of primal chaos, some thought it was a bowl...but flat seems to have been pretty widely accepted.
By classical times spherical Earth seems to have been widely recognized by western scholars, but it is harder to determine what common folk thought about the subject.Some people in our modern world of moon landings, mars rovers and satellites still believe the earth is flat. See: Flat Earth Society.
(Sorry to belabor the whole flat earth thing, people who believe impossibly weird things despite overwhelming evidence is kind of a hobby)
Jujitsudave
Mongoose
I for one like this setting because unlike every other setting out there (and I mean EVERY) RQ has combat rules that make sense and are playable. Glorantha is uninteresting to me, but I'd play it at least. I think (and I'd guess that others would too) that nobody has a big problem with Glorantha, it's just that the Core RQ rules would be better served if it were a little more setting neutral.
Psuedosirus
Mongoose
Jujitsudave said:
+1. You are not a different species called "fighter," which generates physical abilities (hit points) and mental ones (feats) in a way utterly foreign to others. People and monsters obey the same rules. No matter how veteran you may be, you cannot fall 200 feet and walk away from the impact with half your hp intact. Fire hurts. Getting a sharp piece of metal shoved through your head kills you, period.
I guess I've never had a GM who has a mastery of Glorantha. I appreciate its richness, but I always make my own settings and don't really miss it. As I've mentioned before, I think this thread is really about bringing RQ to our poor gaming fellows huddling in the dark debating how to make the perfect insectile tauric 1/2 pixie baleen whale Archivist/Ninja/Incantrix.
Here's a video that explains just why there are so few newcomers to comics these days, which I think is actually fairly relevant to this discussion: The Big Picture - Continanity.
Once you have watched the above video, think about how long Glorantha has been around. Glorantha is easily as scary for newcomers, especially if you don't know anyone who's already used to the setting and is willing to run a game for you. If the GM is just as new to the setting as the players, it's really, really intimidating. I mean, thirty or so years of constant additions to the universe means that while someone who's been with it from the beginning will find it easy to get into, a newcomer will see decades of material and not know where the hell to begin. It might not be especially complex, but with that much material, it leaves newcomers like myself thinking, "To hell with this, I'll run something that makes some kind of sense".
I bought Pavis Rises with the hope of running it for some friends, in order to introduce us all to the setting, and frankly I still don't understand the setting well enough to feel confident running it. I'd hoped for an adventure path, similar to Secrets of the Ancients for Traveller, but instead I found a sandbox campaign which, while good for an experienced Glorantha GM to introduce newbies to the setting, there's little to help newbie GMs in the same way.
Once you have watched the above video, think about how long Glorantha has been around. Glorantha is easily as scary for newcomers, especially if you don't know anyone who's already used to the setting and is willing to run a game for you. If the GM is just as new to the setting as the players, it's really, really intimidating. I mean, thirty or so years of constant additions to the universe means that while someone who's been with it from the beginning will find it easy to get into, a newcomer will see decades of material and not know where the hell to begin. It might not be especially complex, but with that much material, it leaves newcomers like myself thinking, "To hell with this, I'll run something that makes some kind of sense".
I bought Pavis Rises with the hope of running it for some friends, in order to introduce us all to the setting, and frankly I still don't understand the setting well enough to feel confident running it. I'd hoped for an adventure path, similar to Secrets of the Ancients for Traveller, but instead I found a sandbox campaign which, while good for an experienced Glorantha GM to introduce newbies to the setting, there's little to help newbie GMs in the same way.
hector said:
Maybe "Dara Happa Stirs" is what you are looking for. It's got information about an empire in Glorantha, so you just really need to know about it and that's it, no need to know about lots of other things outside its borders. All the information you need is included in the book, and then you have a nice epic campaign to run in this empire.
As for helping newbies, maybe we could add a RuneQuest section here:
http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/How_to_Run:Main_Page
We could start with these advice by Simon Bray, posted in this forum some time ago and reproduced in ledpup's blog:
http://ledpup.blogspot.com/2010/12/it-would-have-been-good-to-know.html
If you want more people to know about the RuneQuest II gorgeous system, just recommend it more and talk more about it here:
http://forum.rpg.net/forumdisplay.php?f=3
and other places.
Jujitsudave
Mongoose
No amount of information on Glorantha is a substitute for experience. You may have a GM that is willing to run the setting but is not experienced with it. Meanwhile you may have some seasoned players who know Glorantha. How do you run a game like this?
"GM: So the Grand Poo-Bah of the God Learners wants to invite you for tea and metaphysical discussions....
Player: Um, GM, I don't think Sizzlechest of the God Learners would do that. He's more likely to steal his soul on the spot and......."
The whole game would be like this. The GMs ideas for the whole campaign wouldn't work out while the players would be disappointed because this vision of Glorantha is not what they know it to be from years of playing. With such a Monolithic setting, it's hard to get new fans that see it as something of the old boys club. Runequest is an amazing system that shouldn't be held back by any one setting. Like I said, setting neutral is the way to go.
"GM: So the Grand Poo-Bah of the God Learners wants to invite you for tea and metaphysical discussions....
Player: Um, GM, I don't think Sizzlechest of the God Learners would do that. He's more likely to steal his soul on the spot and......."
The whole game would be like this. The GMs ideas for the whole campaign wouldn't work out while the players would be disappointed because this vision of Glorantha is not what they know it to be from years of playing. With such a Monolithic setting, it's hard to get new fans that see it as something of the old boys club. Runequest is an amazing system that shouldn't be held back by any one setting. Like I said, setting neutral is the way to go.
I concur with this 100%. I love the setting of Glorantha and have read materials on it on and off for year5s, but have never run an rpg campaign and only run a session once or twice. I too was hoping for more structure and would appreciat perhaps a book of scenarios or a compilation signs and portents issue with a couple adventures to fit each broad cultural type?
Of course, the Living Glorantha scenarios were meant to have provided this for originally 3, then 2 cultural groups, but that fizzled.
I think there's a dichotomy between two different gaming styles here. I love sandbox campaigns that give my players the chance to explore and set their own paths. That's why, to me, Griffin Mountain is the ideal Runequest scenario pack. It also gives the GM huge amounts of latitude.Harshlax said:
On the other hand, some people love tightly-plotted, well-crafted scenario paths that I regard as railroady. That was the direction Heroquest went in, with the Sartar Rising campaign. I couldn't run that, although it's hard to deny there are some really cool elements. Even the classic Cradle adventure from the original Pavis set suffered from this lack-of-free-will problem to some extent.
I think the only solution is to release scenario packs of both kinds...
Loz
Mongoose
RuneQuest Adventures Compendium may help fill this need.
Mind you, Pavis Rises has several scenarios that are quite intentionally able to be run as standalone pieces. 'Sariedo's Debt' and 'Weave and Weft' are good introductory scenarios that have intrigue, some dungeon crawling and also get the characters engaged in the overall campaign - if that's the GM's wish. 'Pavis Rises' might look like its 100% sandbox but it isn't. It does have some straightforward, traditional RQ scenarios designed with beginners in mind.
Mind you, Pavis Rises has several scenarios that are quite intentionally able to be run as standalone pieces. 'Sariedo's Debt' and 'Weave and Weft' are good introductory scenarios that have intrigue, some dungeon crawling and also get the characters engaged in the overall campaign - if that's the GM's wish. 'Pavis Rises' might look like its 100% sandbox but it isn't. It does have some straightforward, traditional RQ scenarios designed with beginners in mind.
Psuedosirus
Mongoose
cerebro said:
And what has been done about it?
Psuedosirus said:
We've come to some ideas that, if Mongoose decides to follow our advice, might get more players to the system. This thread is also one of the reasonI decided to start early on my Eberron-conversion project. I also think this thread has been anathema to cerebro's other thread with the "My players guide to new players.".
- Dan
Psuedosirus
Mongoose
Dan True said:
Well, I gather that some believe that old news is the same as effective news, and I'm not aware of any. I am happy to be educated, but I am not hip to what, precisely, has been done to evangelize this game.
Well, I will try to get people to play Runequest anyway I can. In the hopes of someone eventually becomes a GM here. So IIIIIIII can play MY characters!.Dan True said:
Is sad.
Any way, after aim done with the guide. I will make an adventure. Color PDF.
I happen to be an script writer, and people love my adventures here,so lets see. The "problem"(is a plus really) is Runequest open nature. Hmm...we will see.
Psuedosirus said:
Well, I'm not trying to educate you or anything - just give an overview of the effectiveness of the thread.
I hope some of the Mongoose guys have been reading in on it, because overall I really think some good points have been made in the discussion. Especially about artwork and how to draw players to the system.
- Dan
Totally Agree, i would be happy to buy a copy of what you are selling (or at least get a copy)
I am really keen on pre-written adventures for Runequest - as a new Dad and a Partner in an international Accounting firm I have little time to prepare as a GM and all these aids would be good.
I am really keen on pre-written adventures for Runequest - as a new Dad and a Partner in an international Accounting firm I have little time to prepare as a GM and all these aids would be good.
