Anti-glorantha rant to moongose.

[duncan_disorderly]

Every system now has well defined monsters.

"every system" has some sort of background for it's monsers, though few are anywhere like as well defined as Glornatha's trolls.

Trollpak was groundbreaking, and is largely the reason for those well defined monsters you are seeing elsewhere

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

I'm not sure Chaosium/Runequest/Glorantha were alone in treating non-human races with a bit of depth. Tekumel did it, Traveller had whole books on each major race, etc..

Trollpak, however much it pushed the envelope at the time, was 30 years ago, a period of time longer than some RQ players have been alive. Lets not keep on saying how great it all was. The box art isn't going to turn any heads today. So, dwarves think they're part of a machine and elves are plants? The end result is the same, dwarves are surly, elves are mystical tree huggers, the same as in every other fantasy environment.

(I'm playing devil's advocate a little here, you understand).

I think, seriously, part of the problem is the 'talented amateur' artwork, which consigns Glorantha, (and therefore Runequest), to the rpg underground. I mean, the Sartar Companion cover art is pretty dreadful. Can anyone site ANY kick-ass art for Glorantha? I can't. Has there been an awesome full-colour, professional piece of art depicting Harrek the Berserk in all his barbaric majesty? Jar-Eel? Jaldon Toothmaker? The Red Emperor or the Inhuman King?

No. See, there's guys who know a bit about Glorantha who can draw a bit, and there's great artists who don't know anything about Glorantha. I've only ever seen art by the former, never the latter.

It matters because where would Wizards or WW be without the art? Vampire would be selling the same volume as Runequest, probably. This lack of aesthetics has touched the RQ rulebook too. That cheesecake piece is as out of place in an rpg rulebook as a picture of a lawnmower would be. (And not a cyber-lawnmower, btw).

Yup, the one thing which puts newbs off Glorantha is the complete lack of inspirational artwork, in all probability. Easily fixed, actually.

Just my opinion.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

So, dwarves think they're part of a machine and elves are plants? The end result is the same, dwarves are surly, elves are mystical tree huggers, the same as in every other fantasy environment.

(I'm playing devil's advocate a little here, you understand).

Actually, this is one of the things I think is one of Glorantha's strengths that often gets overlooked in the fannish obsession with saying how great Glorantha is because it is different from every other setting.

Glorantha can be, for the most part, a "standard" RPG world, particularly if you don't worry about "canon" (YGWV and all that). You can probably fit most "fantasy RPG" adventures somewhere in Glorantha with minimum effort (And vice versa) - See Griffin Mountain/Griffin Island for an example. These may not pass muster with Gloranthan Purists (and I am quite prepapred to be outraged if Mongoose start peddaling supposedly "gloranthan" material with little or no discernable Gloranthan content), but can work fine for your own game.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Actually, this is one of the things I think is one of Glorantha's strengths that often gets overlooked in the fannish obsession with saying how great Glorantha is because it is different from every other setting.

Glorantha can be, for the most part, a "standard" RPG world, particularly if you don't worry about "canon" (YGWV and all that). You can probably fit most "fantasy RPG" adventures somewhere in Glorantha with minimum effort (And vice versa) - See Griffin Mountain/Griffin Island for an example. These may not pass muster with Gloranthan Purists (and I am quite prepapred to be outraged if Mongoose start peddaling supposedly "gloranthan" material with little or no discernable Gloranthan content), but can work fine for your own game.

I know Glorantha can pose as a more generic setting than it actually is. This is definitely a feature rather than a bug, but I'm not sure it is worthwhile stating this as a strength. Glorantha's main appeal lies in strong characterisation, (of men as well as non-humans and gods). And some first rate art would definitely help this along.

There's never really been an issue with Glorantha's setting material or even scenarios, but maybe this has blinded publishers to the complete lack of visuals. I mean, someone like Paul Jaquays could craft something special from the most ordinary material, and, give him something like Glorantha to work with, and the results are going to be awesome. But don't ask the guy to look after the visuals as well. That would be crazy. But this is exactly the sort of thing which has happened throughout Glorantha's long published history.

I want to see art that depicts Glorantha. Argrath and the Giant's cradle, a priestess of the Paps, (and the strange blonde haired, blue-eyed inhabitants there). Arkat and Nysalor, Delecti, etc..

 

[Mikko Leho]

The PC game King of Dragon Pass had good art, some of it can be found through Google:

http://www.google.fi/images?q=king+of+dragon+pass

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

The PC game King of Dragon Pass had good art, some of it can be found through Google:

http://www.google.fi/images?q=king+of+dragon+pass

This is the state of play in 2010/2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzNs4-kRLaE

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

I'm not talking 'console kewl', necessarily. This pic has been fairly popular with rpgers for good reason,

http://www.stormbringer.net/images/elric/elric11.jpg

Now, imagine that being Argrath. 8)

 

[Dan True]

I'm not talking 'console kewl', necessarily. This pic has been fairly popular with rpgers for good reason,

http://www.stormbringer.net/images/elric/elric11.jpg

Now, imagine that being Argrath. 8)

Isn't that the old cover for DoD? or am I mistaken it?

- Dan

 

[daxos232]

That picture has never been used for D&D, to my knowledge. That's Elric of Melnibone a character by Michael Moorcock.

 

[Exubae]

T'was one of the Covers of Moorcock's Stormbringer (circa 1985).
Cool, better than console cheese.

 

[simonh]

It's the cover from the old Stormbringer RPG by Chaosium. Not sure which edition. It was also used on a paperback edition of the novel of the same name, of which I have a very battered old copy.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Psuedosirus]

Really? We're talking tapirs now? Although they are the very heart and soul of Glorantha, I think we may be off topic a bit.

Gloranthan Trolls are nothing like Tapirs - Morokanth are Like Tapirs, - Maybe the OP is confused by his determination to hate Glorantha without actually knowing anything about it?

Not hating at all; I have some affection for Glorantha as a setting; sorry for confusion. I was trying to return to the focus of Glorantha generally, rather than the appearance of Trolls or who has the most ridiculous monsters.

I'll happily concede that RQ will always need to provide for the Glorantha lovers but also assert that there should be more focus on those who want to create their own worlds. There are a bazillion settings for D&D even tho it started in Greyhawk. There will always be a Greyhawk component for D&D for those who love that world. But we RQ'ers need the source books for making worlds -- general stuff about assembling parties, balancing adventures, placing enemies, building conflicts, etc -- that allow new DMs to play this system without having to accept someone else's setting. Conversion guidelines would be great too.

Many people understand that D&D 3.5 is broken. Assemble the magic combination and your character can overwhelm virtually anything with an exponentially more potent slew of spells. There is dissatisfaction with WotC's new creation, and we should ease the way for d20 refugees into our system because it is fundamentally better.

 

[Exubae]

PrinceYyrkoon Wrote:

This is the state of play in 2010/2011

Yep another shallow rehash of the same thing... prettier graphics than most...

Give Assassin's Creed its due its not as repetative Dragon's Age and their ilk.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

It's the cover from the old Stormbringer RPG by Chaosium. Not sure which edition. It was also used on a paperback edition of the novel of the same name, of which I have a very battered old copy.

Simon Hibbs

Stormbringer 4th ed, by Michael Whelan.

 

[DigitalMage]

I can agree that Glorantha can seem intimidating and perhaps hard to get into - I know when I first read Glorantha the Second Age it didn't quite click with me (and I too am not much of a fan of ducks).

That said, I gave it a second go and found I really like the concept of the monomyth that each culture interprets differently. I also like how mythic it feels, the stories remind me more of aboriginal and native american myths than the traditional fantasy stuff. Glorantha feels different and IMHO that is a good thing.

I do not think RQ should cut its ties to Glorantha, but maybe a book on world building might be useful, perhaps with some sample settings.

I personally think a "traditional fantasy" setting would be a waste, the market is filled with them. The reason why Pathfinder (both setting and RPG) are so popular is because it stand on the shoulders of D&D. Are settings like Hellfrost, Sundered Skies, Dragon Age, Freeport etc selling significantly more than Glorantha?

I think the only type of setting that could really boost the popularity of RQ would be a licence that has a pre-existing fan base - Conan could maybe do it, though some players may be happy sticking with the d20 version if they have it.

I personally am not interested in settings based on video games - when Green Ronin were teasing about their new game on Twitter I actually got excited and signed up just so I could follow the hints. When the game was revealed as Dragon Age I was like "what? never heard of it! sounds like yet another fantasy game with nothing original about it"

Equally, a manga based game does not appeal - I hate the big eyes small mouth type art and I can even be put off a game by it (I am not the biggest fan even of Pathfinder / Wayne Reynolds art).

But I am sure many others might like such type of settings. But I don't think they will make RQ hugely more popular.

To me the draw of getting RuneQuest in the first place was Glorantha - the idea of a setting with such real world history made me think it was likely to have a decent fan base, allowing me to find players more easily - a brand new setting would hold no such promise.

TBH one of the things that Mongoose now are doing that can help improve the popularity of RQ is provide a living campaign, so thumbs up there!

This is of course all IMHO.

 

[Dan True]

That picture has never been used for D&D, to my knowledge. That's Elric of Melnibone a character by Michael Moorcock.

Not D&D, DoD. But now that no one knows what I'm talking about I realise it's probably not called that in English, if it ever got translated. It's an old Swedish RPG based on the "Basic Roleplaying" like Runequest. Which is probably why they were allowed to rip a front page from them.

Found a link: http://www.verden-hinsides.dk/wp-content/uploads/Cover-til-Grundreglerne.png.

- Dan

 

[Psuedosirus]

I'm also not a big anime/manga fan, but the tykes are, and the future is always with the young, not coots like me.

Options are great; let a million flowers bloom and let people pick the ones they think are prettiest.

Back to D&D: Greyhawk may be the base setting, but plenty of people play Faerun and Eberron. Each has a distinct feel and broadens the appeal of the foundational product.

My own RQ world also has a monomyth, and Glorantha taught me how to do that. So again, not hating here. But mine I think is simpler and easier for players (I am proud of bringing new players to the hobby, especially the under-represented female demo) and my instinct tells me that wouldn't have happened with a Glorantha setting.

I'm a veteran GM, though. What do we have to offer a not-so veteran to make it easier for them to create a world and start loving RQ like we do?

 

[simonh]

I don't realy get the Ducks = cute race thing. That's not how they are atualy presented at all.

They have perhaps the most miserable and marginal existence of any group in the whole of Dragon Pass - at least during the Lunar occupation in the 3rd age (which frankly is all I know). There's nothing at all twee about them. They're desperate hunted outlaws, with a hefty price on their head (literaly, one year of taxes per head) just for being what they are. They get absolutely no breaks or free rides from either the game system or the setting. Disney this is not.

I don't realy know about them in the 2nd age, I suppose they're in quite a different situation along with the occupants of Beast Valley.

Simon Hibbs

 

[kintire]

I don't realy get the Ducks = cute race thing. That's not how they are atualy presented at all.

But they are. I agree the backstory for them is as you have said, but when they actually show up in scenarios they are usually comic relief.

 

[cerebro]

Really? We're talking tapirs now? Although they are the very heart and soul of Glorantha, I think we may be off topic a bit.

Gloranthan Trolls are nothing like Tapirs - Morokanth are Like Tapirs, - Maybe the OP is confused by his determination to hate Glorantha without actually knowing anything about it?

I have the monster coliseum,and I know both "races". The Morokanth...human raising Tapirs... with martial arts? Another jewel from Glorantha.

Troll do look like humanized tapirs,they are fat and have an overgrown snot.

And I don't know if glorantha is well developed or not. All I'm saying that everything I have seen from it makes me hate it. and is lame. or old. And that I will buy a better setting. With a more modern look.