Ancients in Armageddon - which is which?

[Darilian]

Yah, that might be....but it is hardly worth getting terribly bent out of shape over it, imho.

The issue isn't the issue- who REALLY cares what the names are. The issue is more about what relationship should the AOG B5 war stuff should have over Mongoose's development plans for A Call To Arms. Personally, my answer is....

Mongoose should be free to do what they feel will promote the liscense and sell books/figures. FULL STOP. If that means that they have to 'correct'/'violate'/ whatever previous 'canon' of AOG stuff, then so be it. Hate to be so harsh, but lets just cut to the thick of it, shall we? Mongoose has the rights to the liscense, WB owns the property, so really its up to them. If we, as fans, don't like it, then we don't buy it. But to say, AOG did it THIS way.....!!, for me, doesn't mean anything.

(Yes, I cheered when they said they were getting rid of the Centauri 'Beam Team'.)

So long as they don't call Sheridan "Holly" 8) , I'm willing to see what direction Mongoose wants to take. Doesn't mean I'll like it. But- they are professionals and I'm willing to at least see what direction they want to take the game rather than just beat them up for every little thing they do 'wrong'.

Darilian

(Ducking from the forthcoming calls of 'fanboy'! Irony is SO lost in today's society!)

 

[Locutus9956]

The point is that many people who play ACTA (including myself) started BECAUSE they played B5Wars and wanted essentially a faster play version of that game. Im not saying they cant change the previous canon if they want to and in some cases this is good (the Centauri beam team being a prime example) but in other cases its just change for no reason and leads to inconsistencies. Since both games are supposed to portray the same universe (and frankly ACTA is based more on B5Wars than B5 iteslef anyway (AoG INVENTED most of the ships)....

Ok so maybe not the Mograth which was really invented by Paramount and called a Ferengi Marauder, but I digress

 

[Ripple]

I agree that it doesn't matter that much, and like you I will see where they are headed...but like Locutus I came to this game out of a love for both the show and previous game which established almost all that is known about how the fleets were built and what the races were like.

On the ancients I have a person grudge as I like the kirishiac fluff and the model best out of all of them...and conversely hated the model and fluff of the one Mongoose switched it with. So for me they took a real treasured role-playing aspect of my mini's game and stomped on it.

Somewhat the same with my drazi, my fast cheap ships became my core and my nicely painted stunning ships with great personal history became a patrol choice I would never field unless I was playing Pak. And my third favorite fleet had one of its iconic ships suddenly flying in reverse! Guess the fact that these kind of changes have hit each of my old favorite fleets made it a bit more important to me. =)

I'm concerned with Mongoose's canon choices in part due to JMS yanking his endorsement of any novels Mongoose puts out. They are a professional group, but they do not seem overly concerned with the standards set by the creator and final arbiter of what is really a part of this universe, where as AoG stuff never had this issue to my knowledge. I just don't want to see too much drift away from stuff JMS endorses, as it damages the brand and makes it harder to get fans of later material involved in the game. See the Star Fleet universe vs the Star Trek franchise for an example of that kind of conflict.

Ripple

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Going to stick my neck out here.

Firstly, I came to ACTA fresh and don't personally care what the frell a previous game call the ships. The series called them first ones. For all you know the previous game designers kept the title canon by paying a fat wad of notes to someone at warner, and Mongoose didn't.
What Mongoose have done hasn't, to my knowledge, gone against the original series. Just annoyed players of the previous game. Oh, and this isn't supposed to be a personal attack on you guys that did play the old game, just presenting the alternative view of those without the 'baggage'.

Secondly, and this may sound like heresy, JMS isn't infallable. Just look at crusade. And bare in mind he's a writer, not a games designer. It might actually mean that some of his work is not actually ideal for use in a wargames environment. Take the Shadows and Vorlons for example. Much as I love them, and if you've seen other posts of mine you know I do, they do represent some serious problems on the balance front. If designing a game from the ground up, you probably wouldn't have ancients in it.

So the point is that changes the mighty JMS doesn't like might actually lead to a better game.

 

[Davesaint]

So the point is that changes the mighty JMS doesn't like might actually lead to a better game.

True, however if JMS does not like what you are doing, he can make it very hard on you to do business. Warner Bros might be a little more concerned with someone who might make them millions of dollars in the future, like JMS, than a game company. Especially a game company that is not putting things out in an Electronic format designed to go with millions of PS3's, XBox 360's, and Nintendo Wii's. You play a very dangerous game when you go against canon, and some people are more agressive in protecting their property than others. (think George Lucas before he let Timothy Zahn write post Return of the Jedi books.)


Dave

 

[captainsmirk]

One question (since I do not own Armageddon I'm relying on ship viewers here which may have been corrected based on the assumption that the pictures were switched) but does the ship with the picture of the "pointy ship" have the gravitic weapon stats or the pulse weapon stats?

Because if it has the pulse weapons then it is in fact wrong as that ship is shown firing a massive beam in the show...

The "caltrop" ship is shown firing pulses, so as long as the stats match the ships as shown in the show the name doesn't really matter...

Personally (as an old B5warser) I think they should be like they were in B5wars (especially as all the weapons are taken directly from that game) but can understand why others don't think that's so important.

Nick

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Oh, and having looked at the stats, it does make sense that the stat lines for the ancients in question could be the other way around. They would certainly seam to fit that way.

Basically saying that I'm not disagreeing on this point, just the general attitude of AOG = good, Mongoose = bad that some people seam to have.

 

[Ripple]

Its not that AOG = good and Mongoose = bad. No one is saying that.

It actually makes me very angry that the comments made are being misconstrued that way. This is not an anti-mongoose rant, its pointing out something that is a mistake at best or a questionable move at worst, and that a certain segment on the players are applauding as 'courageous'. It is not courageous to simply re-name stuff to suit yourself over the material you are converting to your game. Want to do that, don' use the material that already has history...make up something new.

One big reason is that this is not a dead media. JMS is still producing new material for the story. If he has a canon set of material, we should leave that material be so that what gets done does not conflict with any new material he produces. We have a whole area of undeveloped time to 'go our own way'...late in the time line.

Ripple

- It's just a philosophical difference I guess. I believe if you buy the right to do a conversion of original material you have an obligation to the fans of that material and its originator to be faithful to that material.