AJP bomb and how it works

[cordas]

1) Stop them stacking. Simple idea really, jump points opening cause a degree of interference that stop others opening within a certain distance. You cannot open a jump point within 8" of another Jump point. If scatter would take the jump point within this distance it fails to open (you effectively count as having 'falied' the 'initiate jump point' action and this does NOT effect the recharge time on your jump engines). This rule applies only to incoming jump points as its the vortex opeing out INTO realspace that causes the problem. (The fluff is just off the top of my head feel free to tweak it as much as possible). The distance is also subject to change. A better version might be 6" restriction but reduce 'blast' radius to 1" (jump points CAN overlap bases with this version otherwise this would be less than wise).

I like the idea of limiting how close JPs can be to each other.... In the show you never see ships openning jump points right on top of others... Maybe this was beacuse they had rather unfortunate effects, like I dunno openning a jump point in a jump gate..... The Bonehead manouver I seem to remember it being called whne Sheridan used this manouver to destroy a Shadow ship....

The safe operating range for openning JPs is 6 inches apart (the combined wash of 2 JPs). If gates happen to drift closer then both ships that tried to open the gates suffer 1 critical hit for every inch under 6" between the 2 gates. If more than 2 JPs are open in the same area then its 1 extra critical per inch for every extra gate.

To me it seems a nice simple rule that can be easily added into the game, and whilst it doesn't stop JPBs it does limit their effectiveness. It would even allow counter JPB battery you might decide your big Warlock can afford to take a crit or 3 (or its so damaged that it no longer matters) so it could open a JP right on top of that one opened by that ship in HS....

This seemed to be more relevant to this topic than the other so decided to post it here as well.

 

[Burger]

Good idea cordas. But it is a bit of a bummer if your (non-AJP) ships JP scatters on top of another! You tried to play sportingly by spreading your JPs out, but you get punished with crits...

 

[cordas]

Good idea cordas. But it is a bit of a bummer if your (non-AJP) ships JP scatters on top of another! You tried to play sportingly by spreading your JPs out, but you get punished with crits...

Then just use the 1 JP to bring all your ships in from Hyperspace..... nothing says they each have to have their own JPs. Ships only have to enter from the JPs forward arc so you can get a fair spread.

Yes non-AJP fleets will suffer a bit of a disadvantage of not being able to cluster, but I am sure they will console themselves more than adequately in the knowledge that they won't get aJPB'd to death..... You win some you loose some....

 

[katadder]

1" is actually quite a space in space. so 6" is like opposite sides of a planet and not in support of each other. also by the time you actually measure from centre point of on JP to centre point of another you probably already have 2" distance already.

 

[Burger]

1" is actually quite a space in space. so 6" is like opposite sides of a planet and not in support of each other. also by the time you actually measure from centre point of on JP to centre point of another you probably already have 2" distance already.

So how come a JP bomb has a 4" blast radius then? Thats the size of a small planet.

 

[katadder]

true but read the 2e preview and thats coming down to 2". has a big effect really, but only out the front of it.

 

[Burger]

It should be 1" maximum, or preferably just a point attack against one ship, IMO. Like you said, 1" is quite a space in space so 2" is a very big space.

 

[Reaverman]

but they would still need a 5 to do it, making it more the elite crews the only ones making use of this tactic with basic crews only getting it through luck.

But ISA have better crews than the average fleet, and Bluestars which are at low PL and DJP drives. It means they are far more likely to do it, purely on the number of ships. Where as most other races, like Centauri, Narn, EA, Brakiri etc dont.

 

[katadder]

It should be 1" maximum, or preferably just a point attack against one ship, IMO. Like you said, 1" is quite a space in space so 2" is a very big space.

2" is only really going to gt one ship anyway due to ship base sizes etc. 1" probably wouldnt even get a ship unless you placed it on its base.

 

[Burger]

Yes exactly my intention
Get one ship, or multiple fighters.

 

[cordas]

Hmmm when we play we tend to find that ships within 6" of eather are perfectly able of supporting each other.... Actually ships anything within 4" of each other tend to find themselves hampered and are susptable to explosion damage....

I know the arguement you are making about the distances in spoace, but we aren't playing in space, we are playing on a board 6x4 that represents space, we are using Fleet action minis or counters and although the ship is actually just a tiny dot on top of the stand, the mini's are considerably larger.

The reason I chose 6" is because that is twice the damage radius for a JP, if you shrink the damage radius for a JP to 2" then I would suggest any JP within 4". However if its tested and play testers find that X" is better than 6" I won't have a problem with that.

We know from when JPs are talked about in the show that they involve the release of colossal amounts of energy, we know that openning one JP inside a JP gate is the equivalent of using a nuke in current military technology.....
I think it fits perfectly into the fluff that openning one JP within the discharge radius of another open JP should cause a similar discharge, and I think it fits into game balance that the backlash should do significant damge to the ships involved...

 

[Reaverman]

 

[Burger]

The reason I chose 6" is because that is twice the damage radius for a JP

Small point, the blast radius is actually 4". A lot of people seem to think it is 3", I don't know why?

 

[cordas]

The reason I chose 6" is because that is twice the damage radius for a JP

Small point, the blast radius is actually 4". A lot of people seem to think it is 3", I don't know why?

Doh, cos no one has used a JP bomb in our games in probably getting on for a year now... but you are right now I check the books.

You could increase the overlap to 8" but I still think 6" makes a better starting point for backlash damage.

I also meant to say that if the overlap happens both JPs collapse and can't be used, the ships that made them need 3 turns before they can attempt to open a new one.

 

[Burger]

I also meant to say that if the overlap happens both JPs collapse and can't be used, the ships that made them need 3 turns before they can attempt to open a new one.

Strongly disagree with this part. The point of making changes is to punish the "bad sportsman" and prevent people from using cheese tactics. Not to punish the "good sportsman" who accidentally rolls badly on his scatter roll! That could cost you the game, just because your JP scattered into another JP.

 

[cordas]

I also meant to say that if the overlap happens both JPs collapse and can't be used, the ships that made them need 3 turns before they can attempt to open a new one.

Strongly disagree with this part. The point of making changes is to punish the "bad sportsman" and prevent people from using cheese tactics. Not to punish the "good sportsman" who accidentally rolls badly on his scatter roll! That could cost you the game, just because your JP scattered into another JP.

Hmmm, its very hard to do one without the other.... Well apart from altering the size of the jump gate discharge damage.... and even then it won't stop the bad sportsman side of it... even with a 1 inch shock wave you could still pile 10 JPs ontop of a Warship easily enough if you have a ship at patrol that has AJP.

Yes I know my rule will penalise players who decide to open a large number of standard jump points... but I would ask them why they need to open large numbers? You can move as many ships as you want out from it, in any direction as long they are facing forwards themselves and move out of the forward arc of the JP.

 

[Locutus9956]

The 4" radius was the reason I origianlly suggested 8" (if its less then you can still position multiple points to hit one ship.

 

[cordas]

The 4" radius was the reason I origianlly suggested 8" (if its less then you can still position multiple points to hit one ship.

Sounds good to me, but I would say 8 is maybe a touch to far when you have to consider scattering, I do however mean any jump points with 6" of each other (360deg) not in the forward arc of each other.

 

[Locutus9956]

yeah I thought of that too Cordas, hence my revised suggestion of 6" with a reduced blast radius to 2"

I would not have both points collapse though only the second one and NOT have it reset its jump engines either. It will cost that ship a turn and stop you putting 2 points on 1 ship but not stop you jumping in your fleet sensibly.

I would say though Burger that the 'good sportsman' could just not put his jps close enough to scatter into each other? Or bring multiple ships through the same point?

The thing your missin with the 6" standard rule Cordas is that if you place two points on opisite sides of a ship both facing it 6" apart then theyre still only 3" from the target (both of them (and will both hit it) In fact Im pretty sure you can put 3 points spaced 6" from each other and a ship in the center would still be withing 4" of all of them. (you cant quite do 4)

 

[Burger]

I would say though Burger that the 'good sportsman' could just not put his jps close enough to scatter into each other? Or bring multiple ships through the same point?

Multiple entry points is a valid tactic though, your opponent doesn't know which you are going to enter through. And standard JP can scatter up to 10" (with green crew).