Aircraft and carriers

ebar

Mongoose
While most of the V@S rules do the job I've found the aircraft rules to be a bit lightweight. So I decided to do a bit of rewriting. The rules I've come up with have been play tested a bit but I'm still open to suggestions.




New aircraft rules


General Notes

Each flight is now considered to be 6 separate aircraft. Stats will remain as published except for the following changes.

Ordinance (torps, bombs, etc) Get the number of attacks given in stats per aircraft attacking. Damage stats are to be altered, half the number of damage dice of weapon rounding up. E.g. swordfish torpedo bomber gets 4 DD this now become 2.

Dogfight
Change to dogfight stats
Stat 0 becomes -1
Stat 1 becomes 0
Stat 2-3 becomes 1
Stat 4-5 becomes 2
Stat 6+ becomes 3

Aircraft Initiative and AA

Aircraft now roll separately for initiative. This in done between the ship movement and ship firing phase. Each side roll a D6, the side with the highest dice roll moves first. The two sides then alternate until all aircraft have moved. All dog fighting and bombing is resolved in this bound.

Ships being attacked, or ship close enough to support ships being attacked by aircraft, resolve their AA fire in this bound. AA fire at planes not attacking is resolved in the ship firing phase. NOTE AA cannot be fired into a dogfight involving friendly aircraft.

Dogfighting,

A dogfight can only be initiated by a flight of aircraft with a dogfight score of one or better. The attacking aircraft rolls 1 D6 for each surviving plane in the flight. To this they add or subtract their dogfight stat. To they must equal or better the to hit score of the target. If their dogfight modifiers mean that to hit a score of seven or more is needed then two rolls of six on the dice equal one hit (or three if a result of eight is needed). For each hit, the defender must successful roll a dodge result to avoid damage. In the case of planes with more than one hit these will work through one aircraft at a time (e.g. three hits have been scored one a flight of beaufighters; damage two aircraft. One is shot down, a second suffers a point of damage)

Fighter must roll at end of each round in which they fought to see if they still have ammunition. On the first combat 2+, second 3+, etc. Once their ammunition is expended cannot attack, carrier aircraft must return to carrier, aircraft purchased separately are removed and cannot return. If themselves are attacked they dogfight as normal but cannot return fire.
A flight that has been intercepted by enemy aircraft can opt to move away, rather than remain in the dogfight. In their move (which my be the next round if they have already moved this bound) flight returns fire on the attacking fighters using the dogfight rules. The flight may then move away at up to two thirds it’s top speed. However it may not initiate a new dogfight or attack a ship this bound.

Example

1. A full stand of 109’s attacks a full stand of swordfish
2. The 109 has a dogfight stat of 2
3. 109’s roll 6 D6 + 2 meaning for every roll of 3 or better the 109’s score a hit.
4. In this case the 109’s score four hits.
5. The swordfish has a dodge score of 4+.
6. In this case, three swordfish successfully dodge, the fourth is shot down.
7. The 109’s now roll for ammo and unfortunately roll a one. Their ammo depleted, if land base (i.e. purchased separately) the fighters are removed from the board. If carrier aircraft they remain. We’ll assume here they are carrier aircraft.
8. In the swordfish’s turn the five survivors now return fire.
9. Since the Swordfish is dogfight –1, they are rolling 5 D6-1, meaning that they need two 6’s to score one hit.
10. The swordfish score no hits.
11. The swordfish may now move up to eight inches. The 109’s may not further engage until they have returned to their carrier and rearmed.


Attacking ships and modifications for separate aircraft types

Aircraft do not receive beam on modifiers that are used by ships, instead the following modifiers are used depending on the aircraft type.

Dive Bombers
To reflect the greater accuracy and difficulty of shooting these aircraft down in their attack run, dive bombers receive a +1 bonus to their to hit roll, while the AA suffers a –1 to hit the dive bomber.
EXAMPLE. A JU 87 is attempting to bomb a cruiser, normally a 5+ would be needed, however as a dive bomber the Ju 87 will hit on a 4+. (subject to modifiers for high speed etc) The cruisers AA would normally hit the Ju 87 on a 4+ but now will hit on a 5+.
Note these modifiers ONLY apply while the dive bomber is attacking a ship.

Level Bombers and fighter-bombers

To reflect either the high speed or high altitude of these aircraft AA against these aircraft suffers a –1 to hit. However these aircraft also receive a –1 when bombing to reflect the reduced accuracy of this method of bombing.
Note these modifiers ONLY apply while the bomber is attacking a ship.

Torpedo bombing

No special modifiers

Aircraft carriers

Aircraft carrier can be fielded in two ways, on table and off table, with each being subject to a number of additional rules.

On table

The carrier is deployed on the table and used as normal with the following modifications.

If carrier has launched or recovered aircraft in turn that it is hit by gunfire or bombs (but not torpedoes), it will suffer potential criticals on damage roll of 5 or 6 (still needing 4+ as per rulebook) In addition even weak weapons can cause a critical. This is to reflect the vulnerability of carriers when their flight deck is loading with aircraft carrying munitions and aviation fuel.

Off board

Carrier is not deployed on the table. The player must declare aircraft launch but these aircraft will only arrive on the players base edge the turn after they are launched. When returning to the carrier, the aircraft must first reach the base edge, then spend another turn before they are considered to have reached the carrier. So it is only 2 turns after leaving the board that they can land.

The idea being that if the player opts to put the carrier on the board he gets a much faster turn aircraft around. Off board it is invulnerable but it will take aircraft ages to return after their first strike.

Finally since the hitting power of aircraft has gone up carriers should each slide up one priority notch.
 
It should be noted that theres a supplement coming out for VAS soon with apparently a big overhaul of the aircraft in the game ;)
 
Thats a bit harsh, ebar...

MP have reacted to criticism and comments from players regarding VaSs shortcomings, and worked on it in the OOB. We don't know how successful they've been, and I'm sure if you don't like the rules then you can feel free to keep using your house rules.

But at least they are willing to revise the rules systems by player demand.
 
ebar said:
To correct what they should have got right the first time.

I'll pass

The original aircraft rules were a deliberate decision on the part of MGP to keep the focus of the game on surface actions.

Only after there was a large player demand for more realistic aircraft rules did they decide to go back and revise them.

You may disagree with their initial decision, but this wasn't a case of MGP "getting something wrong". . . just a case of them designing a different game than the one you wanted.
 
And when all's said and done the new rules may be better than your houserules for all you know, not saying they WILL be or that your houserules arent good or anything but just that dismissing it out of hand without even being willing to consider the possibility is little petty.

Secondly there ARE tournaments and so on and if you attend any kind of gaming club for example playing with loads of houserules makes it alot harder for new players to join in etc. Basically I personally try to avoid houserules unless absolutely necessary! I do agree aircraft needed to be better in the original (though as noted it was apprently a deliberate decision on MGPs part, frankly VAS might in its original verison might have made a damn good World War ONE naval game if you cut out things like U-Boats and Radar...)
 
I'll concur with the last several posts. Your solution to use house rules is fine if you are not planning to play at game demos and conventions. You also have to win the "hearts and minds" of those that you wish to play with, as they might have their own ideas as well on how to play the game.

The game as designed had an intent of fast play and wanted to focus more on surface actions rather than have aircraft dominate the table. With a separate supplement nearing release, those that wish to build upon the original game will have new options for play. Besides, if you pass on the supplement you'll miss out on hundreds of thousands of tons of new warships to pick from. In other words, there's much more to the new supplement than some new rule twists and errata. :D

By the way, welcome to the forums here and to discussions about the game! :D
 
Yes, it was a deliberate decision to nerf the aircraft. The fact that the game has been so popular (incredibly so) and there had been an obvious demand for different, more historically correct, aircraft rules has led to their inclusion in Order of Battle.

OOB includes more aircraft and many more ships for all the fleets in the original game plus a Russian force as well.

The game also includes rules for shore batteries, MTBs, kamikaze attacks, mines, new scenarios and campaign. So even if you do not want the new aircraft stuff there is plenty more in the book that is worth purchasing.

The fact that I will be working on it some more over the weekend indicates that I am keen for it to be out this month AND I actually like the game. A lot. (Mind you I also like the nerfed aircraft, so they might stay nerfed whenever I can manage to persuade another player to make it so :D ).
 
I may be critical V@S but on the whole I like the system. I can field an entire fleet and get a game finished in two or three hours without needing a staff officer or my ears starting to bleed. Saying that the aircraft are wildly underpowered, sorry battleship lovers but there is a reason why battleships for the last sixty years have been either museums or glorified monitors: aircraft can and did kill even the biggest ship by the end. If the rule set doesn't reflect that, it basically becomes a fantasy game. If you don't want them, agree not to field them (I frequently don't, since I use an RN fleet and FAA is not great, no matter which way you cut it)

Okay I'm done ranting. In terms of suggestions there has to be some kind of limit on fighter so they don't simply take off and run around attacking things for the rest of the game; they need a limiter, fuel or ammo.

Personally I've tended to assume that the separately purchased aircraft are land based. Given that such aircraft tend to be unreliable about turning up you could include and dice roll for when they turn up. Which might be frustrating if you land based fighter turn up the round after your opponents land based bombers beat the bejesus out of something and head for home. Possibly one for gaming masochists.
 
ebar said:
............Okay I'm done ranting. In terms of suggestions there has to be some kind of limit on fighter so they don't simply take off and run around attacking things for the rest of the game; they need a limiter, fuel or ammo.

Personally I've tended to assume that the separately purchased aircraft are land based. Given that such aircraft tend to be unreliable about turning up you could include and dice roll for when they turn up. Which might be frustrating if you land based fighter turn up the round after your opponents land based bombers beat the bejesus out of something and head for home. Possibly one for gaming masochists.

As said in this thread Order of Battle is going to revamp the way aircraft work and is reportedly due out this side of christmas. So before you hack about too much, wait and see what they do change
 
I read ebar's comments as restrained, so I didn't read too much negativity into his "rant". I actually agree with many of his assertions, as obviously the game was designed for people to play without worrying excessively about "swatting" those pesky dominant aircraft. OoB should give players options setting this toward more of a historical bent. :)
 
I wonder how many planes were shot down attacking warships vs. warships sunk by planes during the whole course of the war ?
I have often wondered if a plane has approached from port instead of starboard or if that cloud of smoke hadn't crossed in front of the gunnery crews eyes for those 3 secs or the bombs weren't stacked on the deck or the dropped bomb hadn't found the magazine below deck etc...... how many ships would have been lost war-wide Obviously those types of things can be said of the battlefield too but with much smaller numbers of ships than men it's easier to try and pick things out if you get my meaning.I just hope the new plane rules don't make them too tough in that taking into account historical " lucky hits" as standard. Hope I made my meaning plain enough but it is late and I don't feel to well for some reason. :(

Also has it been said if there are going to be light or escort carriers in OOB ?
 
lutz said:
I wonder how many planes were shot down attacking warships vs. warships sunk by planes during the whole course of the war ?

Well, as one example in one direction the USS South Dakota was credited with downing 26 a/c for one hit received on her turret top. On the other extreme is the example of the Japanese fleet carrier Akagi being sunk from aviation fuel fires ignited by a single a/c bomb hit.

lutz said:
Also has it been said if there are going to be light or escort carriers in OOB ?

Yes, and yes. :D
 
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