(Ahem) Rulebook Update
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
The main rulebooks changes sound sensible. Missile launchers will be particlarly interesting - they don't play much of a part in my games at present but with heavy vehicles arriving they may have got more valuable as they were...
For Block War, after a quick scan can I suggest that the points for Judge DeMarco are wrong as she is a level 6 Hero Judge but only for 150 credits. As for the Sentenoid - the only shame is that they couldn't have been 250 credits each (with a small reduction in something to maintain balance) so a starting force could have had two!
For Block War, after a quick scan can I suggest that the points for Judge DeMarco are wrong as she is a level 6 Hero Judge but only for 150 credits. As for the Sentenoid - the only shame is that they couldn't have been 250 credits each (with a small reduction in something to maintain balance) so a starting force could have had two!
DyN said:
My bad on DeMarco - I was too wrapped up assigning Talents! Will be corrected on next pass.
You could not have two Sentenoids anyway. Remember, a force _must_ have at least one Hero, and Sentenoids were deliberately made Minions!
squattingmouse
Mongoose
As we're talking about updates -
Is there a good reason why the Citi-def can't hire a Citi-def soldier as a mercenary or am I the only one to spot this so far?
Oh - and pretty please a reference card for the core book with all the weapons on one side and all the talents on another? Or a roster with spaces for listing such things. I've made an excel roster which automatically calculates your gangs costs burt the forum won't allow that extension to be attached to my post
Is there a good reason why the Citi-def can't hire a Citi-def soldier as a mercenary or am I the only one to spot this so far?
Oh - and pretty please a reference card for the core book with all the weapons on one side and all the talents on another? Or a roster with spaces for listing such things. I've made an excel roster which automatically calculates your gangs costs burt the forum won't allow that extension to be attached to my post
cfirpi said:
Absolutely.
On the reference card thing, give us a short while - Talents are changing, and one of the things we are working on is to make the visually easier to deal with.
squattingmouse
Mongoose
cfirpi said:
Cool - I can stop trying to make it all fit on one sheet then using Excel!
Now that you are have stats for the Sov Invasion force how about a "gang" listing for the gallant resistance fighters - so a mix of Judges, Citi-defence and citizens with little if no choice of upgrades?
As its quite Necromunda like - some rules for captures and rescues? Or optiopns for what to do with them - so sell them to slavers, feeding them to the Kleggs or turning them into Zombies.
Arrests:
The rulebook says that Judges must make an attempt to arrest bu that Heroes auto pass the check - do you still have to try against Heroes or not?
Also It would be helpful to have a listing of those potential perps and mercenaries that the Judeg can straight onto the offensive against - so guessing:
Sov Invasion force models etc?
As its quite Necromunda like - some rules for captures and rescues? Or optiopns for what to do with them - so sell them to slavers, feeding them to the Kleggs or turning them into Zombies.
Arrests:
The rulebook says that Judges must make an attempt to arrest bu that Heroes auto pass the check - do you still have to try against Heroes or not?
Also It would be helpful to have a listing of those potential perps and mercenaries that the Judeg can straight onto the offensive against - so guessing:
Sov Invasion force models etc?
The resistance fighter thing is a great idea. Let me meditate on it!
I would suggest for Resistance:
Street Judge - as normal but no options, no grenades
PSI Judge - as above
Rookie Judge - as above
Juvve - half normal starting credits
Punk - half normal starting credits
Citi-Def Offcier - half starting normal credits
Citi-Def Solider - as above
Jaeger - as above
Have a "low on Ammo" rule - Like Dangerous but any roll of a 1 when firing means that gun is out of ammo for the rest of the present game - reloaded ready for next game
All models (including Judges) can buy additional weapons and armour after the first game but credits cost is doubled
Some other ideas:
Lawgiver Mk I: Allow a Judge to change a magazine for another allowable type as A Special Action
Street Judge - as normal but no options, no grenades
PSI Judge - as above
Rookie Judge - as above
Juvve - half normal starting credits
Punk - half normal starting credits
Citi-Def Offcier - half starting normal credits
Citi-Def Solider - as above
Jaeger - as above
Have a "low on Ammo" rule - Like Dangerous but any roll of a 1 when firing means that gun is out of ammo for the rest of the present game - reloaded ready for next game
All models (including Judges) can buy additional weapons and armour after the first game but credits cost is doubled
Some other ideas:
Lawgiver Mk I: Allow a Judge to change a magazine for another allowable type as A Special Action
shiba-tenchi
Mongoose
Mostly things we've had trouble with that I'd like to see cleared up (apologies if covered elsewhere....but it is a rulebook):
Movement: What is the mechanic for changing levels (scaling walls, going up stairs, climbing down a hole etc)? What happens if someone is knocked off a roof/ladder/tower/higher level (e.g. Power Shot)? What are the rules for Flying?
Mutants: Can I take both +1 and +2 Will mutations for a total of +3? Do these mutations change the starting value for campaign purposes? E.g. if I take a +2 Will mutation for a hero, can I then raise the Mutants' Will up to 5 through experience upgrades?
Guns: Why aren't Long/Laser/High Velocity Rifles more accurate than say an antique revolver? A Rifle Scope makes a weapon more accurate, not longer ranged....shouldn't a scope add (at least) 1D rather than increased range? Similarly, shouldn't "Blast" add 1D rather than 1 damage?
Close Combat weapons: Katana, but no good old fashioned swords? Perhaps a name change for cleaver is in order?
Heroes: The Heroes and Minions section says every model in your force listed as a hero starts at level one, but the Angel gang have higher level heroes. Do you get to add to attributes and pick talents up to their level? Also note the text in the "Using the Angel gang" suggests force size is 350 points.
Robots: Why are their armour upgrades so expensive? A servo droid would effectively pay around 60 points to get armour 5 (assuming it has already paid for its' armour 3 as part of its starting cost), where anyone else can pay 30 for +5 Sports Armour. Can Robots use a med kit?
Zombies: Can Zombies use a med kit?
Psi Talents: Two of these have prerequisites of Will of 8 and 12! I can't see how to get any character higher than Will 7 .....
Fatties: Does the dash mean they cannot buy armour? The options section says they can buy armour? Are they precluded from using a Bat Glider/Power Board/Jet Pack/Sucker Gun?
As noted below, some of the gangs are short on choices. Adding a "Wasteland Wretch" equivalent to a Juve/Punk to the Cursed Earth gang would allow a bit more variety and size. An equivalent "Fattie Sympathiser/Food preperation technician" Punk version for the Fatties would allow for a slightly varied gang, and give them a slim chance (get it?) against anyone who managed to put someone with a spit gun on a roof or behind a barricade.
Movement: What is the mechanic for changing levels (scaling walls, going up stairs, climbing down a hole etc)? What happens if someone is knocked off a roof/ladder/tower/higher level (e.g. Power Shot)? What are the rules for Flying?
Mutants: Can I take both +1 and +2 Will mutations for a total of +3? Do these mutations change the starting value for campaign purposes? E.g. if I take a +2 Will mutation for a hero, can I then raise the Mutants' Will up to 5 through experience upgrades?
Guns: Why aren't Long/Laser/High Velocity Rifles more accurate than say an antique revolver? A Rifle Scope makes a weapon more accurate, not longer ranged....shouldn't a scope add (at least) 1D rather than increased range? Similarly, shouldn't "Blast" add 1D rather than 1 damage?
Close Combat weapons: Katana, but no good old fashioned swords? Perhaps a name change for cleaver is in order?
Heroes: The Heroes and Minions section says every model in your force listed as a hero starts at level one, but the Angel gang have higher level heroes. Do you get to add to attributes and pick talents up to their level? Also note the text in the "Using the Angel gang" suggests force size is 350 points.
Robots: Why are their armour upgrades so expensive? A servo droid would effectively pay around 60 points to get armour 5 (assuming it has already paid for its' armour 3 as part of its starting cost), where anyone else can pay 30 for +5 Sports Armour. Can Robots use a med kit?
Zombies: Can Zombies use a med kit?
Psi Talents: Two of these have prerequisites of Will of 8 and 12! I can't see how to get any character higher than Will 7 .....
Fatties: Does the dash mean they cannot buy armour? The options section says they can buy armour? Are they precluded from using a Bat Glider/Power Board/Jet Pack/Sucker Gun?
As noted below, some of the gangs are short on choices. Adding a "Wasteland Wretch" equivalent to a Juve/Punk to the Cursed Earth gang would allow a bit more variety and size. An equivalent "Fattie Sympathiser/Food preperation technician" Punk version for the Fatties would allow for a slightly varied gang, and give them a slim chance (get it?) against anyone who managed to put someone with a spit gun on a roof or behind a barricade.
Resistance forces sounds cool.
I think Da Boss has it covered pretty well - the core of the resistance is the judges, backed up by surviving Citi-Def and any local gang footsoldiers who've had a sudden attack of patriotism.
Short of ammo is a definite. My one concern is keeping track of weapons - Dangerous has the benefit that it does the book-keeping for you by removing the model in question.
Not sure how to reflect it in game best; possibly reduce the attack dice of each weapon by 1 (to a minimum of 1) and no using Spray? Judges, certainly, will know how many rounds they have left - they may be more circumspect about using them but I wouldn't expect many cases of Click! "Oh Grud...".
Definitely give Judges access to other weapons - they'll use whatever they have. In fact, you may want to mandate this for some of them (i.e. they don't start with judicial weapons) - not many people will voluntarily take a handgun if they get a Mk2 Lawgiver as standard issue. Also, some access to earth-shattering kabooms will be needed to deal with sov-cit tanks.
Rad-Sickness was the other one, but it's fair to assume your resistance types have managed to avoid the worst or they wouldn't still be fighting. Last was those hypno-pamphlet things....not sure if that's something you'd include directly, but it might be an 'environmental hazard' - everyone (except arguably judges) would be less inclined to fight.
In fact, you might have a little pre-game table for your resistance force of 'what unpleasant stuff have the Sov-Cit forces been doing to the sector recently':
1 - Martial Law Crackdown: Everyone is 'Short of Ammo'
2 - Radiation Poisoning: Models take a single hit on a 1 at the start of the game.
3 - Hypno-Pamphlets: All non-Judges are at -1 Will To Fight
4 - Ill-Judged Punitive Atrocities: Everyone gets +1 Will To Fight
5 - [???] Any suggestions?
I think Da Boss has it covered pretty well - the core of the resistance is the judges, backed up by surviving Citi-Def and any local gang footsoldiers who've had a sudden attack of patriotism.
Short of ammo is a definite. My one concern is keeping track of weapons - Dangerous has the benefit that it does the book-keeping for you by removing the model in question.
Not sure how to reflect it in game best; possibly reduce the attack dice of each weapon by 1 (to a minimum of 1) and no using Spray? Judges, certainly, will know how many rounds they have left - they may be more circumspect about using them but I wouldn't expect many cases of Click! "Oh Grud...".
Definitely give Judges access to other weapons - they'll use whatever they have. In fact, you may want to mandate this for some of them (i.e. they don't start with judicial weapons) - not many people will voluntarily take a handgun if they get a Mk2 Lawgiver as standard issue. Also, some access to earth-shattering kabooms will be needed to deal with sov-cit tanks.
Rad-Sickness was the other one, but it's fair to assume your resistance types have managed to avoid the worst or they wouldn't still be fighting. Last was those hypno-pamphlet things....not sure if that's something you'd include directly, but it might be an 'environmental hazard' - everyone (except arguably judges) would be less inclined to fight.
In fact, you might have a little pre-game table for your resistance force of 'what unpleasant stuff have the Sov-Cit forces been doing to the sector recently':
1 - Martial Law Crackdown: Everyone is 'Short of Ammo'
2 - Radiation Poisoning: Models take a single hit on a 1 at the start of the game.
3 - Hypno-Pamphlets: All non-Judges are at -1 Will To Fight
4 - Ill-Judged Punitive Atrocities: Everyone gets +1 Will To Fight
5 - [???] Any suggestions?
I assume if a number is listed they're already 'bought up' to that level, whereas anything just listing 'hero' doesn't yet include the level 1 buffs. Otherwise Dredd is even scarier than I thought he was!
On the Gangs - one thing that strikes me is that quite a few of them are a bit light on core choices compared to the others.
So where as a Apes, Robots and Judges list has 4-5 options - Gangers/Mobsters have just 2 be nice to have some other options for variety.
In a similar vein be good to have some rules for some (non unique) mercenaries being a more permanent addition to a gang - requiring payment. Again to add to variety of choices for some gangs.
So where as a Apes, Robots and Judges list has 4-5 options - Gangers/Mobsters have just 2 be nice to have some other options for variety.
In a similar vein be good to have some rules for some (non unique) mercenaries being a more permanent addition to a gang - requiring payment. Again to add to variety of choices for some gangs.
Da Boss said:
The Mobsters could certainly use some fleshing out.
As for Mercs joining gangs - there is a Talent for that!
I have been attempting to write up some pat wagon rules just to throw out and see what people think, this has made me come up with some other things.
Comparing judges judges vs, holocaust, vs Lawmaster.
The holocaust suit itself is only 200cr, and the lawmaster is 100cr yet giving way better stats. I think the +100 for lawmaster is too low, + 150 or +200 seems to make more sense when doing the math.
A lvl 8 Street Judge with lawmaster moves farther, can take more damage with just less armor, but more weapon choices for a 100cr cheaper.
Which also brings up that the Senior Judge merc/backup on pg 76 is 25pts too cheap.
Unless its been established that mercs are cheaper by virtue of not being permanent.
Comparing judges judges vs, holocaust, vs Lawmaster.
The holocaust suit itself is only 200cr, and the lawmaster is 100cr yet giving way better stats. I think the +100 for lawmaster is too low, + 150 or +200 seems to make more sense when doing the math.
A lvl 8 Street Judge with lawmaster moves farther, can take more damage with just less armor, but more weapon choices for a 100cr cheaper.
Which also brings up that the Senior Judge merc/backup on pg 76 is 25pts too cheap.
Unless its been established that mercs are cheaper by virtue of not being permanent.
miraclebubbles
Mongoose
Is the current download of the rulebook up to date? I saw on the second page "revised 26th April 2012". Thanks. Jeff
Yes and no.
YEs. It was the last Final version and is perfectly good though with lots of little typos and such.
No, because there a a few revisions being made, Don't know when the next one will be done though, the community keeps throwing out alot of good idea for them to review.
YEs. It was the last Final version and is perfectly good though with lots of little typos and such.
No, because there a a few revisions being made, Don't know when the next one will be done though, the community keeps throwing out alot of good idea for them to review.
miraclebubbles
Mongoose
That is all I needed to know. Thanks for the reply. I will just play and not worry about it. Thanks!
